Brand New SIG P229: Gaps in Slide Finish

[Paul K]

I've been thinking about this. I would call them up and tell them that you are still not satisfied with this gun and their customer service. You paid for a new gun, not a new gun with a used finish. If they still don't do anything, ask for your money back.

Business should not have to create excuses for sloppy production. They should be creating great products with consistent quality.

 

[TxFlyFish]

Everytime govt contracts are in the picture civies get low priority. Quality goes south and along comes the attitude/customer service problems. To that extent im really happy for HK, and ill forgive them for their marketing and high prices.

 

[HKGuns]

HK controls rattle? I've been collecting HK's for going on 11 years and this is the first I've heard of this.

We both know they don't. Someone is making excuses for SIG and trying defend their obvious lack of QC as clearly demonstrated in this one sample. Not that this one sample can be made into a generalization of poor quality, but their unwillingness to do anything about it sends a pretty severe warning signal in my mind. I really don't care as I've never liked the ergonomics of SIG's, even though I thought they were fine pistols.

 

[sigarms228]

QUOTE: "HK controls rattle? I've been collecting HK's for going on 11 years and this is the first I've heard of this."


Some owners on an HK forum have complained about rattling controls. Out of the ones I tried only one had a very minor case of it.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/147376-getting-rid-right-side-slide-release-lever-2.html

That would not be a deal breaker for me but the lack of quality of the DA/SA trigger on the HK pistols I have tried definitely is.

My point is that are quality control issues to some degree in ALL manufactures of mass produced pistols and missing slide finish inside the slide of a SIG or any pistol is a very minor cosmetic issue at the most.

 

[Uncle Malice]

HK controls rattle? I've been collecting HK's for going on 11 years and this is the first I've heard of this.

Yes. I never really considered it a big deal... but the right side slide release on the P2000 and P30 are very well known for being loose and rattly. A quick glance at the HK forum will show that... not a big deal, in my opinion.

 

[Merad]

@Merad
People post what their own personal experiences tell them. If you want solid proof take a math course.

You're kidding right? The people doing most of the bashing here openly admit that they don't own a newer production Sig.

I have handled older SIGs. There is something about them that feels like it is higher quality. I am not sure how to measure something like that. To go along the lines of your argument though, if older SIGs had as many problems why aren't all those people appearing now and saying as much?

"[Insert older item here] was better... I really don't know why, but it was just better!"

That's pretty much the textbook definition of nostalgia.

I'm not going to waste anymore time here though. I know that asking people to think rationally on the internet is a futile proposition.

 

[TunnelRat]

@Merad

That's pretty much the textbook definition of nostalgia.

That's pretty much incorrect. I only owned an older SIG P228 until AFTER I had bought my new P229. It's hard to have a yearning for something in the past that I never had in the past.

Just out of curiosity, even if it is nostalgia, why does it bother you so?

I'm not going to waste anymore time here though. I know that asking people to think rationally on the internet is a futile proposition.

Then why are you here? Have a nice life!

 

[sigarms228]

Quote TunnelRat:

"I have handled older SIGs. There is something about them that feels like it is higher quality. I am not sure how to measure something like that. To go along the lines of your argument though, if older SIGs had as many problems why aren't all those people appearing now and saying as much?"

I have more than a few of newer and older. Personally I have not noticed any difference in quality by handling them. However take my 1996 German P226 as an example. It does give me the warm fuzzies that it did come with original signed test target, has German proof marks, and triple serial numbers. Unless you get a Walther I don't know of any current manufacturer that does that anymore unless you buy a German made SIG and even not all them come with test targets anymore though I am pretty sure the X-5s still do.

The "older" SIGs had problems for sure. Early P226s had issues with frame rails cracking but that has been long ago been taken care of. Many have complained about rust issues with the folded carbon steel slide SIGs where the current stainless steel slide SIG pistols are much more resistant to rust.

The older German proofed SIGs also had no MIM parts I believe also. New SIGs, as do pistols from ALL manufactures, currently do. I am not trying to start a debate about MIM because it is here to stay and done correctly is not a problem. However given the choice I prefer my SIGs or any pistols to not have/minimum amount MIM parts and that includes Glocks and is one reason I will never get rid of my Gen 2 Glock 19.

I own and appreciate newer and older SIGs and love them all and for me they are my pistol manufacturer of choice. They each have characteristics that can make one more desirable over the other but they ALL have been 100 percent reliable for me and always bring a smile to my face when I start shooting them and to me that is what it is all about.

BTW for those interested Top Gun Supply has a limited amount of German made/proofed/triple serial numbers P229s in 9MM with Ilaflon finish slides. These, according to Tom at TGS, were made in Germany for a contract that fell through and he bought the whole lot. I am considering one for myself. I did converse with Tom and these do NOT come with a test target for those who would be concerned about that.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-p229r-9mm-german-siglite-night-sights-da-sa.html

 

[AustinTX]

The people doing most of the bashing here openly admit that they don't own a newer production Sig.

And?

"[Insert older item here] was better... I really don't know why, but it was just better!"

That's pretty much the textbook definition of nostalgia.

Which is neither here nor there, of course, since Sig devotees can provide you with specific information about several negative changes that have taken place under Exeter's current management.

I'm not going to waste anymore time here though. I know that asking people to think rationally on the internet is a futile proposition.

Good Lord, get over yourself.

 

[r3drang3r]

Missing Finish

Tunnel Rat don't beat yourself up that you could have done a better inspection. The truth be known most dealers do not let you field strip a new gun before purchase. I just bought the same gun brand new and to my utter amazement I found the exact same 1/2" strips where there's bare stainless and no finish.
Someone else said this has nothing to do with the quality of the gun, are you serious? It shows a definitive lack of quality and certainly a complete lack of quality control. Doesn't anybody inspect these guns prior to leaving the Factory? I have refinished guns as a Hobby using Bluing, and most recently Cerakote. It is child's play not to cover the entire surface.
I can't believe I am looking at a gun that cost me close to $1,000 with sales tax and they were too lazy to properly set up the slide before they put the finish on to cover 100% OF THE GUN. I dare say if your brand new car came to you with blotches of paint missing you would not consider the quality to have gone down hill radically. You wouldn't except it.
I have never seen a gun in such a poor state considering it is brand new. It should be flawless as one would expect it to be.
We didn't buy used guns and certainly expected a completely finished product.
The fact that the Factory has been notified and refuses to do anything about it is even more pathetic. In all my years of buying guns this is the saddest thing I have ever come accross. They won't get another dollar of my money with such a poor attitude towards their customers.

 

[Merad]

Doesn't anybody inspect these guns prior to leaving the Factory?

You think Sig doesn't know about it? They even list it in the FAQ on their website...

http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx

Q: There is a square-shaped area of Nitron missing from inside the slide of my pistol. Is this a QC issue?

A: No. This is normal. This area is where a fixture holds the slide during the application of the Nitron. This will NOT affect the function, quality or longevity of the metal, slide, frame or any of their components.

 

[Dragline45]

My experience with Sig's are that lately their fit and finish has not been spectacular. I just got a Sig 232 and it is full of tooling marks, along with the other 3 I looked at. The gun from a functioning standpoint is excellent, but like I said the finish is just not up to par for the price they charge. I plan on going over the entire gun and smoothing out the tooling marks then reblasting the gun. I could send it to Sig and have them do it, but after what I have seen so far I really don't have confidence in their finish work. Compared to my PPK which is of very similar design, there are almost no signs of tooling marks anywhere on the gun, and the slide fit on the back of the pistol is much more flush. I will continue to buy Sig's, but excuse my language when I say they are a bunch of lazy bastards.

When I do the restoration I will do a before and after thread showing all the areas on the gun where tooling marks were left from the factory. Literally my Ruger SR9C which was only $400 has less tooling marks than alot of the Sig's I looked at.

 

[LockedBreech]

I don't think the complaint is unreasonable at all. It's a freaking $900 Sig Sauer and my $450 Beretta PX4 quality control and finish blows that out of the water, with high-grade Italian magazines instead of Checkmate to boot. You deserved better for your money and you deserve to be mad.

Such a shame. I love Sig, but that's not an acceptable Sig product.

 

[AKsRul.e]

IMHO what matters most is reliability - Accuracy , and then external Looks.

The machining marks and the spotty internal finish do NOT
affect the function of the weapon.

With the gun assembled you can't even SEE THEM.

If you feel you didn't get you moneys worth
BUY A DIFFERENT BRAND.

 

[LockedBreech]

IMHO what matters most is reliability - Accuracy , and then external Looks.

The machining marks and the spotty internal finish do NOT
affect the function of the weapon.

With the gun assembled you can't even SEE THEM.

If you feel you didn't get you moneys worth
BUY A DIFFERENT BRAND.

I agree with the reliability > accuracy > aesthetics metric, generally. However, you can get a reliable, accurate gun for quite a lot less than the $900 Sig commands for the P229 in question. A $500-600 Glock, Beretta, CZ, or Springfield will get you a very reliable, accurate gun that will probably outlive you.

The extra $300-500 for Sigs and HKs is supposed to mean you get a higher pedigree of gun. Flawless function, of course, but also an expert fit and finish and careful, detail-oriented assembly.

Flaws in the finish aren't just flaws in the finish. They're indicative of a systemic problem - lower quality of materials in and attention paid to the pistol. Since that's really the only reason to spend the extra money, it's especially damning.

 

[Dragline45]

The extra $300-500 for Sigs and HKs is supposed to mean you get a higher pedigree of gun. Flawless function, of course, but also an expert fit and finish and careful, detail-oriented assembly.

Exactly. When I buy a Ruger, which are great guns by the way, I don't expect perfect fit and finish. But every Ruger I have ever owned have worked flawlessly, and are very accurate to boot. With that extra $200-500 I spend on a Sig I expect better fit and finish and attention to detail. I shouldn't have to go over my Sig 232 with wet-dry to remove tooling marks and re-blast the gun with glass bead to get it to how it should look. As I mentioned before my PPK that my father now owns, which is a cheaper alternative to the Sig 232, has much better fit and finish and costs about $150-200 less.

 

[TunnelRat]

IMHO what matters most is reliability - Accuracy , and then external Looks.

The machining marks and the spotty internal finish do NOT
affect the function of the weapon.

With the gun assembled you can't even SEE THEM.

If you feel you didn't get you moneys worth
BUY A DIFFERENT BRAND.

I agree that accuracy and function are the most important. But let's keep something in mind. It was (this thread is over a year old) a $900 handgun. If all I wanted was function I could have gotten a $400 FNP that would have functioned great. I have owned over two dozen handguns. Some were new at $450, used at $350, and as expensive as $1000. That SIG was the only one to have blemishes in the finish, and it was easily twice the price of similar performing models.

As far as spending my money, I did take that advice. I don't buy new SIGs anymore, only older used ones. Somehow they got the finish right back then (and on every new polymer wonder I now own too).

 

[geetarman]

I never had a Sig until after the first Obama election. That means my guns are relatively new. The frames are made in Germany and the slide in Exeter.

I have 6 of them. Three Elites and three Nitron. Two P220s, two P226s and one P229 and the newest one is the TacPac 1911.

The only gun that was in stock at the time I bought my first one was the P229.
It may have been there a while. The others I bought as they came in. I have not run the serial numbers to see when they were actually completed.

I have only had an issue with unusual barrel scoring on the P220 Elite. Sig fixed that problem and the issue went away.

Mine seem to be put together just fine and they run great.

The P220 Elite and the P229 Elite are my favorites.

The only guns I own that feel better in the hand are the 1911s. . .so I shoot the TacPac 1911 quite a bit.

That gun has never had a stoppage and the trigger is very good. The slide to frame fit is not as tight as a DW or a Smith and Wesson 1911E, but it is very close and for quite a bit less money.

I have a DW Valor that is VERY close. . .as a result it will fail to feed if not run pretty wet. It is loosening up and will run better when it gets a few more rounds through it.

 

[Uncle Malice]

I have a DW Valor that is VERY close. . .as a result it will fail to feed if not run pretty wet. It is loosening up and will run better when it gets a few more rounds through it.

Similar issue when my Springfield TRP was new. Would have maybe 2 stoppages per 50 rounds until I got over 300-400 rounds through it.

Sometimes the extractor wouldn't let go of the casing, sometime a fail to chamber.

I know some people say break in periods aren't a reality... and for the loose tolerance guns like Glocks(which I love) and the like.. they aren't. For guns that are hand fit to tight tolerances, they most definitely can be. That doesn't mean it's not a quality gun.

 

[r3drang3r]

To AKsRule

You have got to be kidding....right.

Because it is not an exposed problem that makes it OK.

I looked at a Stoeger Cougar that cost less than $400 and the finish was a beautiful Bruniton finish. Applied with pride of workmanship. This Sig is almost $1,000 and it looks like ****. I have never seen a gun where the manufacturer could not apply finish to the entire surface. That's just plain Lazyness and a pathetic excuse that they can't cover a small area. It seems no one else has a problem putting finish on 100% of their products.

The fact that you and people like you accept this is the reason it continues. If people stopped buying this crap how long do you think it would take before a change came about.

I can't believe they have this in their FAQ's. Now that is really Pathetic.

This is just plain unacceptable and we the people do not accept this poor standard of work. I wonder if the President of Sig drives a Car that has only half a paint job??