BP Pistol Safety Ques.

[johnwilliamson062]

Once the charge is loaded and compressed, any embers would have either ignited the charge or have been extinguished, because you took away all oxygen. At that point it can either ignite the charge, or extinguish.

Except I, and most Ohio ML hunters(who are the majority of ML shooters in the state) shoot compressed pellets. All kinds of air left in there. With loose powder there Shouldn't be air, but how sure are you that guy 5 lanes down fully compressed the powder? I'm no more sure than I am that the guy 5 lanes down has a full mag, but no round in the chamber and properly activated the safety. Id rather an empty mag well, locked action, and a tube with no charge.

 

[Erno86]

Sometimes our range will allow a charged muzzleloader without a cap to be placed vertically on a gun rack behind the firing line, due to failure to fire --- Otherwise --- All guns must be unloaded/actions open/magazines removed/empty chamber indicators installed during a ceasefire, and muzzleloader guns must have there muzzles pointed vertically straight up.

Proper range etiquette, is to allow any muzzleloaders to discharge a hot/charged firearm after a ceasefire is called, so that the shooter can discharge it into the backstop; when the match director/RSO/members running the range says it's okay to do so.

The BP shooter should have said he still has a hot one, or just raise his hand to signify that he has a problem, that he can't comply to a ceasefire when it's called.

The problems with loaded firearms, including empty chambers but loaded magazines that are inserted into the firearm during a ceasefire on a range: Is that an unsupervised child can run up to the firing line during a ceasefire --- load caps/charge the action and start firing.

At our range, during hunter sight-ins...we've had non-members come up to the firing line, with a charged/uncapped muzzleloader {that is considered unloaded in Maryland/but not on our range property}, and have them dry fire a cap off into the grass just forward of the firing line to see if the grass blades move --- only to find out unbeknownst too them --- that their guns already had a loaded full charge in the rifle --- You know what happened next!!!

Now...our range rule states that the first dry fire cap must be pointed downrange at the backstop --- Even though it doesn't guarantee that the rifle does not have a charge in it. The only proper way to know that the muzzleloader is not charged, is to run a ramrod down the pipe to measure with the rod height too say it's unloaded.

 

[g.willikers]

The only proper way to know that the muzzleloader is not charged, is to run a ramrod down the pipe to measure with the rod height too say it's unloaded.

And remember to remove it.

 

[Erno86]

Ha ha ha...we've had BP shooters at our range, mistakenly shoot there ramrods downrange --- Even some early frontiersmen have shot and killed Indians with ramrods, when it was to late too remove there ramrods from the bore; while being under attack. {At least that what happened in a Hollywood movie}

 

[g.willikers]

As long as the ramrod is firmly against the load, it could fly pretty good.
Not much different that the rope thrower attachment for shotguns.
Although they use special blanks, if memory serves.
Our scuba club had one in their emergency kit.
Now pneumatic ones are preferred.
But if the ramrod has slipped forward leaving a large gap, things could get very interesting and nasty depending on how tight the fit.
Anyone want to do a demonstration video for us??

 

[Pahoo]

Shot-lines

Not much different that the rope thrower attachment for shotguns.

Spoken like a true Deck-Ape. These were called shot-lines .....

Be Safe

 

[Cheapshooter]

I know next to nothing about BP guns
said there were no caps in place
had loaded chambers and his pistol barrel-up in a loose stand
was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line

Yes.

 

[johnwilliamson062]

Even some early frontiersmen have shot and killed Indians with ramrods, when it was to late too remove there ramrods from the bore; while being under attack.

Great in the movies. In reality, they would still need to cap, or even prime the pan, before shooting.

 

[g.willikers]

If the folks who make them call them line throwers, so can I.
And I will,, I mean I did, and I might again.
http://www.ship-technology.com/contractors/survival/line-thrower

 

[JimPage]

My father told me of a time when he was a teen, he was in a pageant at church. In the pageant they were firing mz rifles with no shot. One of them left the ramrod in the gun. You guessed it. The ramrod went most of the way through the church wall, leaving both ends sticking out. True? Probably.. Dad wasn't a story teller. That would have been about 100 years ago in Fitchburg, MA.

 

[Hal]

Even some early frontiersmen have shot and killed Indians with ramrods, when it was to late too remove there ramrods from the bore; while being under attack. {At least that what happened in a Hollywood movie}

In Hollywood they turn pistols on their side, flip cylinders closed and do all sorts of dufas things......
Think about this for a second...

Simon Kenton could load his rifle on a dead run, spin around, and while running backwards fire off an aimed shot.
He wasn't alone in that skill. Several men, both white and red could do the same.

Shooting your ramrod at someone just effectively turned your gun into a club.
No matter how much shot and powder you had, without the ramrod, you were disarmed. No one would do that,,,,,,besides, priming the pan or capping a nipple is a much more time consuming act than ramming the charge home.

Once the charge is loaded and compressed, any embers would have either ignited the charge or have been extinguished, because you took away all oxygen. At that point it can either ignite the charge, or extinguish.

Potassium nitrate - a key ingredient of black powder - releases oxygen as it decomposes. it also does it in a very spectacular manner...

My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range?

No - - but - - not because of the loaded & uncapped cylinder.
Grease can and will melt and run into the chambers and foul the charge.
If that pistol had been fired and heated up, leaving it standing muzzle up w/greased cylinders is an invitation to a real problem.
I had that happen to me once & it's a real nightmare to clear those fouled chambers - - if you can at all.

 

[44 AMP]

there's an old saying that "you aren't a REAL blackpowder shooter, until,.."

You have loaded with no powder
You have loaded with no ball
You have double loaded
You have shot your ramrod (at least twice)

without the ramrod, you were disarmed. No one would do that,,,,,,

Sure, no one would do that, intentionally!

But it has, and does still happen. One of the more interesting things found by people going over Civil War battlefields (shortly after the battle) was the number of ramrods (on both sides), in places where they only could have gotten if fired there. And there are cases where both game and the enemy were actually hit by fired ramrods.

As to a cap&ball gun, I don't consider them dangerous, until capped, under normal conditions. I'd be slightly more concerned about it being muzzle up in a stand on the shooting bench (firing line) when the range is called "cold".

 

[g.willikers]

Anyone willing to test shooting a ramrod and see how it compares to an arrow from a bow?

 

[Boncrayon]

He should not have given push-back to your concern. The pistol was in his hand when the line was called "COLD" for target check. Before the call "COLD", all firearms must be laid down with all actions OPEN!!!!

Apparently there wasn't an RSO present calling the line for safety.

RTC
NRA Certified Instructor, Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, RSO
LA WL&F Hunter Education Instructor
LSPCC Instructor

 

[Pahoo]

Stay focused

I once attended a time-study class for my work and we were given the problem of shortening the loading/shooting time, using an M/L rifle at a bad guy coming at you. Each step was given a time value. ......

The instructor did not know that I was familiar with M/Ls and yes, I shot the ramrod. The instructor said he had not thought of that. .....

That is the only time I have shot a ramrod. My biggest problem is forgetting where I am, on the loading process. That is one reason that while doing all the loading for our classes, I "try" to stay out of any conversations. .....

Stay focused and;
Be Safe !!!

 

[Branko]

Has anyone ever tried to shoot a ramrod through a chronograph?

No - - but - - not because of the loaded & uncapped cylinder.
Grease can and will melt and run into the chambers and foul the charge.
If that pistol had been fired and heated up, leaving it standing muzzle up w/greased cylinders is an invitation to a real problem.
I had that happen to me once & it's a real nightmare to clear those fouled chambers - - if you can at all.

I use a hard grease - 50% wax content - which doesn't melt easy. Granted, it's pretty solid in winter. Everything has downsides, I guess.

 

[Cheapshooter]

Must have been some intense heat. As tight as the lead balls fit in the chambers on my Lyman 1858 I can't see enough of anything melting down, and seeping into the charge enough to contaminate it.

 

[44 AMP]

It is an interesting thing, even though we fit the balls so they shave a ring of lead when seated, without the grease, flashovers can, and have happened.

you would think that with that tight a fit of the balls, that it couldn't happen, but history has proven that it can. Not "always will", but "can".

 

[shafter]

If there were no caps in place it was safe. If there were caps in place that would make it much more dangerous if it should fall. If it was my gun and I was the only one shooting I wouldn't be concerned but with strangers around.....

 

[Branko]

It is an interesting thing, even though we fit the balls so they shave a ring of lead when seated, without the grease, flashovers can, and have happened.

you would think that with that tight a fit of the balls, that it couldn't happen, but history has proven that it can. Not "always will", but "can".

Well, I have heard of this, so I guess it is possible.

My thoughts would be this:
(a) Somehow, if the whole thing is covered in loose power (eg. loading without a funnel) the powder gets compressed between the ball and chamber wall, forming a channel. I'm pretty sure lead is softer then graphite coated BP, so this might be possible.
(b) The chambers, by manufacture defect or damage, have an area where they are thicker then the chamber mouth. With this shaving a bit of lead at the chamber mouth would not effectively insure a good seal. I've read an account of a revolver shooter who had eliminated his occasional chainfiring problem by chamfering the chamber mouths. It's pretty feasible, come to think of it, on a non-chamfered cylinder. The Italian steel is pretty easy to ding, but is still much harder then lead. If one of the chamber mouths was damaged a tiny bit, it could shave lead yet underneath it the seal might not be fully airtight.

I don't have other possible explanations, but either of the above is possible I think. At any rate, I tend to put a hard grease pill underneath the bullet or ball, and I think this would be a pretty safe chainfire preventive.