BP Pistol Safety Ques.

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jonnyc

New member
At the pistol range yesterday and was waiting for a break to put my targets up. Someone called for a cease-fire and we got ready to cross the line. I then noticed that a guy shooting a repro BP percussion pistol had loaded chambers and his pistol barrel-up in a loose stand. I called a halt and mentioned to the guy that his gun was loaded on the line with us about to go down-range. I know next to nothing about BP guns so I wasn't convinced when he told me it was OK, the hammer was at half-cock. If that pistol fell off the rickety stand I would not consider the half-cock to be much of a safety, and I explained that to him. He got a bit testy and then said there were no caps in place. That sounded a bit safer, so we proceeded.
My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range? Is that how to make a BP pistol 'safe', or should he have removed the cylinder or fired the rounds?
 
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Pahoo

New member
Need more info to be sure

My question..........was I overly sensitive about a "loaded" BP pistol on the line with us down-range? Is that how to make a BP pistol 'safe', or should he have removed the cylinder or fired the rounds?
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You might be but you haven't given enough information to say conclusively, that you were. ...... :confused:

Reading between the lines, it looks like you are talking about a C&B revolver. Then again, perhaps not. How do you know that the chambers were loaded and if you noted that, was it capped? ..... :confused:

Be Safe !!!
 
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AK103K

New member
Why didnt you just let him finish the rounds in the gun? Thats what has always happened at the ranges I belonged to that had the issue.
 
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Bob Wright

New member
At the range I used to go to, unloaded meant NO POWDER in the chamber or chambers. Without caps, the gun was indeed safe, but protocol at ranges I've been to was to call five minutes before a cease fire. When that was called, no guns were to be reloaded, and all loaded guns were either to be fired off, or cleared.

Freak accidents can happen. A friend of mine had a flintlock shotgun fire from static electricity generated by his nylon jacket.

Incidentally, a loaded cap-and-ball revolver will have grease over the chamber mouths when powder and ball is loaded. Fairly obvious.

Bob Wright
 
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jonnyc

New member
I'll try to answer.
-I saw him loading and greasing the cylinders while I was waiting to put targets up.
-I was not close enough to see if there were any caps on the nipples of the C&B pistol.
-I did not call for the cease-fire, but when it was called, the guy did stop loading and everyone backed up off the line.
-My concern was with the loaded cylinders and the half-cocked hammer. The question of the caps did not come up until I questioned the cylinders and hammer.
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
Sounds like some ignorance on your part.

Without caps, the cylinders won't touch off.
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That might be so but better safe than sorry. What we don't know, we need to take the time to learn. In the mean time, never do anything that feels unsafe. Just as you've heard "better judged by twelve than carried by six", it's better to be overly cautious and not have holes where none belong. Beyond personal safety, every accident feeds the anti-gun spin squad.
 
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Branko

New member
They are good questions to ask.

(1) You are right - the half-cock is not a safety position, the manual warns of it, and common sense dictates if you whack it on the hammer really hard it's going to fall from half-cock. I am not certain it would set off a cap, but it's a possibility.

(2) An uncapped pistol is effectively unloaded, short of holding a torch to the nipples it cannot fire.

An uncapped pistol in the stand I would consider to be safe and unloaded for practical purposes. The only way to quickly fully unload a BP pistol is to shoot it (or remove the cylinder, in case of a Remington 1858 where this maneuver is quick), so not much you can do about it (except allowing the guy to shoot).

Here we don't really fret about these things much - but I guess if you have a lot of shooters you don't know, you have to go by more rigorous rules.
 
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g.willikers

New member
Like the others have explained, a loaded cap and ball pistol, without caps in place, and especially on a loading stand, is very safe.
We all should become familiar with the variety of guns we can run across at public ranges.
 
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Pahoo

New member
Half-cock is not a reliable safety

Private Range;
Whatever rules they make and well communicated, that is what one follows.

Public Range;
These are usually controlled by the County and the rules are posted. Generally the states rules and more lax. :rolleyes:

In Iowa, if the cap or primer is not in place, it is considered unloaded. ..:)

We teach to use all mechanical safeties provided but never to trust them. The best safety is the one between your ears. ..... :rolleyes:

Be Safe !!!
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
When I was zeroing my ML last fall I had someone call a cease-fire to set targets. At that range it is protocol to immediately stop. I'd already loaded powder and ball into the rifle, and I stated I preferred to fire the round before we went down range. He agreed, but I got some strange looks.

By Ohio law, in regards to carry and hunting, the firearm is unloaded if there is no cap in place.

When you fire a muzzle loader there could be burning embers left in the barrel. It can result in a discharge when loading the next round. I'm uncertain of how long it is possible for that to happen. I'd rather have the tube empty just in case. Legally I can tuck a gun in my belt without a holster and go about my business. Legal != safe.
 
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Blindstitch

New member
For the best answer to your question ask the Range Officer or someone higher at that range.

In my opinion no caps is more than safe unless the guy has an open flame at his bench.

All ranges handle things differently. My range flips out if they see anyone point a rifle in any direction but downrange. Yes that includes muzzleloaders that don't look traditional. So loading a muzzleloader there takes informing the range officer you have a muzzleloader and him informing anyone that freaks out when you face the gun up to load it.
 
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g.willikers

New member
there could be burning embers left in the barrel.
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And they can smolder for quite some time.
That's one reason why until artillery shells came on the scene, cannon barrels were swabbed out between shots.
 
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James K

Member In Memoriam
The local range has a separate section for ML and percussion revolvers, but a cease fire applies to the whole range. The rules are that (except in an emergency) the cease fire is announced 5 minutes before it begins; conventional guns can either be emptied manually or fired empty, then opened or slide locked back. Percussion and ML guns must empty or be fired empty.

Jim
 
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Pahoo

New member
Common sense is not so common (CYA)

Percussion and ML guns must empty or be fired empty.
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Even though personally I may not disagree with this rule, it is still the rule of the range. ..... :)

During one of our instructor's meeting, we had an instructor that said the law should state that an M/L was loaded if it had a main charge in place. Stated that even if it was uncapped and stored in a dwelling, it could cause an additional hard during a fire. ...... :confused:

Our law still stands and you can have an uncapped M/L, in a case, closet or wherever, within reason. During one of our M/L reasons a hunter could keep his M/L loaded till the end of the season. ..... ;)

Always your call and
Be Safe !!!
 
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4V50 Gary

Staff
In Oregon, if there's no cap on the nipple, it's considered unloaded. The proper thing to do is to call cease fire, allow him to cap 'n shoot and when he's empty, bench it and then allow people to go forward to check/change targets.
 
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johnwilliamson062

Moderator
There are really good reasons for the laws to read the way they do in regard to hunting, transport, and storage of MLers. That doesn't mean, in a controlled range environment especially, there is no danger when walking in front of one fired in the last 5 minutes un-primed with a main charge loaded. There are all sorts of technically legal firearms activities I avoid.
 
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Branko

New member
When you fire a muzzle loader there could be burning embers left in the barrel. It can result in a discharge when loading the next round. I'm uncertain of how long it is possible for that to happen. I'd rather have the tube empty just in case. Legally I can tuck a gun in my belt without a holster and go about my business. Legal != safe.
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Once the charge is loaded and compressed, any embers would have either ignited the charge or have been extinguished, because you took away all oxygen. At that point it can either ignite the charge, or extinguish.

Once the ball is rammed in place I'd consider it safe, short of holding a fire to the nipple. Flintlocks when primed might be ignited more easily but I don't have one (yet, I plan to correct this, naturally).

At my range there are no range officers or such, and you just wait for a lull in the shooting and ask the other shooters in the section (there are two separated by a concrete wall) if it's okay to go to the target. If they say yes, you go. The recommendation is that you place the gun on the table when someone is going to the target. Obviously when shooting you have to check if it's clear. When someone is walking to the targets I just set it on the table and chat with the other shooters until we're all ready to shoot again.
 
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g.willikers

New member
And make danged sure everyone is paying attention and heard every word, ear protection in place or not.
If anyone has not responded favorably to the request, don't go yet.
I've been shot at while downrange fixing targets too many times.
 
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