Bloomberg at it again.

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WoofersInc

New member
Got this story E-mailed to me. Seriously, why can't this guy stay in New York where he belongs and leave the rest of the Country the hell alone.

NYC undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
By SARA KUGLER (AP) – 2 hours ago

NEW YORK — New York City officials secretly videotaped dozens of firearm purchases they say were illegal at gun shows in states that have not closed the "gun show loophole."

The sting, described in a city report released Wednesday, was conducted at seven gun shows in Tennessee, Ohio and Nevada. Those states are among the many that permit private unlicensed dealers, known as "occasional sellers," to sell weapons at gun shows without conducting background checks.

Gun-control advocates say the loophole makes it easier for criminals to acquire guns and prevents law enforcement from being able to trace those weapons if they are used in crimes.

Nine states, including New York, have passed laws to close the loophole, requiring background checks on at least all handgun purchases at gun shows. Mayor Michael Bloomberg has long campaigned for Congress to close the loophole, and for states to do it on their own if the federal government does not.

Even in states that haven't closed the loophole, federal law bars "occasional sellers" from selling guns to people they have reason to believe would fail a background check.

This is where the Bloomberg operation says 19 out of 30 sellers broke the law during the investigation, in which undercover buyers wore tiny cameras concealed in baseball hats and purses and audio recorders hidden in wristwatches.

In each purchase, the investigator showed interest in buying a gun, agreed on a price and then indicated that he probably could not pass a background check.

Most sellers allowed the purchases anyway, responding in some cases by saying, "I couldn't pass one either," or "I don't care," according to the city's report.

Two assault rifles and 20 semiautomatic handguns were bought this way, the report said.

The 11 who refused sales showed they knew the law.

"Once you say that, I'm kind of obligated not to," said one seller, according to the report. "I think that's what the rules are."

"Fact is, you done told me too much," said another who refused. "I wouldn't sell one to you at all."

The city has no legal authority over the dealers and is using its findings to make a point. A copy of the report is being sent to every member of Congress and the findings will be shared the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"The gun show loophole is a deadly serious problem, and this undercover operation exposes just how pervasive and serious it is," the mayor said in a statement.

The undercover operation took place from about May to August and its $1.5 million cost was paid by city taxpayers. The city hired a team of 40 private investigators from an outside firm to make the purchases.

The sting comes three years after Bloomberg's administration conducted a similar operation focusing on illegal straw purchases at gun shops in Georgia, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Virginia that authorities believe were responsible for selling guns used in crimes in New York City. (A straw purchase is when one person fills out the paperwork and buys the gun for somebody else.)

Bloomberg's administration brought a civil case against 27 gun dealers targeted in its 2006 investigation.

As a result of the suit, 20 dealers are being monitored by a court-appointed special master. One is out of business, two more are expected to be put under monitoring agreements and three were dropped from the suit. A final dealer settled with the city but the terms did not include a monitor.

Investigators in this year's sting also attempted straw purchases at gun shows, and were successful 16 out of 17 times.

The city said it was not planning civil action this time around.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
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S

sholling

New member
He likes to think of himself as King Of The World. An extreme example of the Napoleon complex gone wild and fueled by unlimited money.
 
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KLRANGL

New member
Something tells me that this wasn't a scientifically conducted study, just more anecdotal evidence...
It would be nice if an independent research group would do something like this. I do know the DOJ (or was it FBI?) came out with trace data suggesting (or maybe proving?) that guns used in crimes are not bought at gun shows...
 
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MLeake

New member
The man spent $150million....

... of his own money on his election campaign.

He's worth billions.

He has no trouble using his money, or raising money from others, in order to push his agenda.

The only way to combat somebody like that is through group action. The NRA is one place to start. There are other PACs and groups out there that you might find have some common ground with gun-owners, too.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
Studies show that gun shows are a small proportion of illegal guns acquired. However, a fair absolute number of illegals guns do come from a small number of crooked FFLs.

If they do have solid evidence that an FFL avoided the NICS check in the manner described, flame me, then that person should be prosecuted. If Bloomberg's guys truly caught them - that isn't his fault.

The small number of crooked sales don't do us any good. The criminologists have this all broken down. Kleck just had a good article on it.

The problem is that a majority of gun show sales seem kosher but even one that goes awry - like the Columbine guns - can be used as a vivid instance.

A curious note - some local gun stores have come out against shows at times, making the safety argument, in order to stifle competition.
 
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Tom2

New member
Well they gave the cities in Ohio when they showed the video on Fox news. Said one show was in Sharonville (Goodmans?) and Columbus (What used to be Pro Gunshows?) They might ban hats in the shows now, in case they have hidden video cameras in them, again. :rolleyes:
 
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KSFreeman

New member
Did the Mayor of New York City just admit to Conspiracy to Violate Federal Firearms Law?

His investigators were residents of New York? These investigators were buying pistols in Tennessee?

How is this report not an ongoing criminal enterprise?
 
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hogdogs

Staff In Memoriam
Actually he included a private investigator firm in his "plot"... those employees may have been from out of state. But for a million plus, I will investigate the allegations for you. Also claims that the New York taxpayers funded the project so are they also guilty of conspiracy? That whole taxation/representation thing should go both ways, right?
Brent
 
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Tom2

New member
They claimed alot of those guys at those shows that I attend, I might add, are illegal dealers selling at all the shows without a license. Well if that is the case, then let ATF work it out. If they are selling personal guns, and are not dealers, I don't know what you can do about that. The video was pretty blurry and of course they did not show you the whole thing or the whole conversation, just excerpts. Next show this month I might ask the promoter what he thinks was really going on.
 
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TailGator

New member
Also claims that the New York taxpayers funded the project
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So he is willing to use public funds for political purposes? And did he do his dirty work in any states where it is illegal to record conversations without the consent of all parties?
 
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markj

New member
Iowa and Nebraska both have "Permits to purchase" to get one we go to the sheriffs office and fill out a form, one week later we get to go back and pick up the permit, the office does a complete background check before issueing the permit. This permit also allows a person to take it home now and by pass the wait period. Safe to sell to a permit holder, not safe to sell to one without the permit. I also belive undercover guys frequent the gun shows now, least in Iowa. One this weekend, got my permit renewed today :)
 
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Mello2u

New member
NYC undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
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Since it is impossible to show the "Gun Show Loophole" because it does not exist. The whole media circus is a lie.

It is my understanding of the law that FFL holders and private citizens who do not possess FFLs are subject to the same laws whether they are physically at a gun show or physically some other place. Being at a gun show does not create a situation where a law that applies everywhere but a gun show. If that is the case, I'd like to know what law is not in effect because the transaction takes place at a gun show.

Of course I could be wrong. I don't have billions of dollars to hire lawyers to research this for me like Bloomberg does.
 
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Waterengineer

New member
Can someone please explain Bloomberg's modivation for his personal agenda of gun control. THere has been much writing about the things he does and the organization he started to "sign on" mayors around the country.

However, I have not read anything about about his modivation.
 
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TnRebel

New member
Did anyone else noticed that two of the transactions where filmed from the sellers point of view, when the buyer was paying for the gun ?
 
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oneounceload

Moderator
As someone who lived in NYC and NV, his view is that HE knows what is best for all - after all, he made billions telling everyone what to do (look up his news sites

He blames everyone else for his failings to control crime, and feels that unless everything is his way or no way - it will fail

What he fails to recognize, along with Jackson and Sharpton, is that the failure, and subsequent crime rates, are NOT a gun issue, but a family and cultural issue

That is a WHOLE 'nother thread - but every gun control law has done NOTHING to lower crime - just hinder the law-abiding folks from defending themselves
 
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oneounceload

Moderator
There's a difference between law-abiding citizens selling FTF and someone who is a licensed dealer selling inventory for profit - do not forget that......something that Bloomberg would like you to not remember
 
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tipoc

New member
I am very careful of the factual accuracy of any information coming from Mayor Bloombergs efforts.

I do not know that the video shows us what we are supposed to believe it does.

I do not know what the laws in Ohio say about the sale of rifles and the newspaper article does not state what they are. Are the sales regarded as private party? I don't know and would be careful of Bloomberg's efforts to show all these as illegal.

Having said that, if they are in any way illegal than that talks too much "vendor" is a fool and oughta be in the lockup just to protect the general populance from stupid.

Several times over the years I've been approached at gun shows where I was selling a firearm by folks offering me twice the asking price of a gun if I'd sell it to 'em in the parking lot and bypass an FFL. I've always assumed such folks for cops.

tipoc
 
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Mr.RevolverGuy

New member
More in depth video.

http://www.gunshowundercover.org/

It would not shock me if all these folks were on the same pay roll buyer and seller.

Private sells are ok in Ohio as long as the person has a valid state drivers license with a Ohio residency as the address. Unless the person admits to you that he is a felon but you are not required to ask.

If I am not mistaken and I need to look at the federal law again but I think it says private sells are ok for OCCASIONAL sellers. These guys were showing up at the shows with tables of weapons and weren't licensed dealers.

I hope the powers that be validates the authenticity of this video and these facts before acting on it.
 
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