Well the majority of Black Bear are not much bigger than a large human male. So if something works well on humans there is a good chance it will work on a black bear. We really have to define if we are talking hunting or self defense. When hunting bears we are going for the vitals. You will need a lot of penetration to reach the vitals on a bear. In a self defense situation you are going for a head or shoulder shot as the vitals will not be visible on a charging bear. With a 45ACP you will want to use FMJ to ensure adequate penetration. Since it is ball shaped to feed in semi-autos it isn't going to leave a very impressive wound channel. It has been said that round nose FMJ bullets leave a wound channel about 70% of their size in actual tissue. In the meantime a HC 44Mag bullet with a massive meplat is going to leave a much better wound channel and also penetrate better. Even a HC 357 load is probably going to leave a larger channel and it will undoubtedly penetrate better. Flatnose HC revolver hunting loads typically leave "full size" wounds. A broad-head arrow would be much more effective than a .45ACP slug. It is going to cut a lot of tissue and cause major hemorrhaging.
Black bear: .45ACP or Broadhead arrow?
- Thread starter tjhands
- Start date
Well the majority of Black Bear are not much bigger than a large human male. So if something works well on humans there is a good chance it will work on a black bear. We really have to define if we are talking hunting or self defense. When hunting bears we are going for the vitals. You will need a lot of penetration to reach the vitals on a bear. In a self defense situation you are going for a head or shoulder shot as the vitals will not be visible on a charging bear. With a 45ACP you will want to use FMJ to ensure adequate penetration. Since it is ball shaped to feed in semi-autos it isn't going to leave a very impressive wound channel. It has been said that round nose FMJ bullets leave a wound channel about 70% of their size in actual tissue. In the meantime a HC 44Mag bullet with a massive meplat is going to leave a much better wound channel and also penetrate better. Even a HC 357 load is probably going to leave a larger channel and it will undoubtedly penetrate better. Flatnose HC revolver hunting loads typically leave "full size" wounds. A broad-head arrow would be much more effective than a .45ACP slug. It is going to cut a lot of tissue and cause major hemorrhaging.
I have been charged by two different bears. Most want to leave the area and will if given a chance. Both bears were wounded and somewhat aggrevated.
One was wounded before we started after it. It had a 12 gage slug wound in a front shoulder. Please reread that part. The plastic sub base was in the shoulder. The upper shoulder bone was broken. The wound was green. If you think a 45 is superior to a 12 ga slug be comforted in the fact that most bears only want to get away from you.
The other was wounded by a 308 win. The hit was low in the front shoulder. The bear charged me upon seeing me. (A fact that you will not see on Animal Planet is a bear can unhinge its jaw during a charge, or so it appeared. I believe his jaw spread was in excess of 24 inches.) The first shot was at a range of 15 feet, it took the bear just under the chin and traveled through the bear and was recovered under the hide at the hip. Innards were trashed. He got up and needed to be shot again. You have to ask yourself, is a 45 superior to a 308 Win? Are you feeling lucky?
Use enough gun.
One was wounded before we started after it. It had a 12 gage slug wound in a front shoulder. Please reread that part. The plastic sub base was in the shoulder. The upper shoulder bone was broken. The wound was green. If you think a 45 is superior to a 12 ga slug be comforted in the fact that most bears only want to get away from you.
The other was wounded by a 308 win. The hit was low in the front shoulder. The bear charged me upon seeing me. (A fact that you will not see on Animal Planet is a bear can unhinge its jaw during a charge, or so it appeared. I believe his jaw spread was in excess of 24 inches.) The first shot was at a range of 15 feet, it took the bear just under the chin and traveled through the bear and was recovered under the hide at the hip. Innards were trashed. He got up and needed to be shot again. You have to ask yourself, is a 45 superior to a 308 Win? Are you feeling lucky?
Use enough gun.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
Which Sword For Black Bear
If you can use a broadhead for black bear and your man enough you should be able to use a katana right?
Only halfway joking here.
If you can use a broadhead for black bear and your man enough you should be able to use a katana right?
Only halfway joking here.Yeah, but with a broadhead, you have a dead/POed bear over there, enough room/time for maybe a second shot, and the bear can't retaliate. With a sword, you have a dead/POed bear right here at your fingertips.
Of course, you can't cut a bear's head off with a broadhead, though.
Of course, you can't cut a bear's head off with a broadhead, though.
Capt. Charlie
Moderator Emeritus
TJ, We'd be interested to see the response from the "other" forum when you post the results there.
I've shot through every animal I've ever killed with a bow up to caribou. I know bear hunters that have had complete pass throughs on their kills.
There is no comparison between the penetration of a broadhead tipped arrow and a .45ACP. Most of the time they don't even realize they're hit.
There is no comparison between the penetration of a broadhead tipped arrow and a .45ACP. Most of the time they don't even realize they're hit.
CobrayCommando
Moderator
In retrospect I was confused about the arrow penetration thing because I've only seen a single bowhunt and it was on TV (OLN). A lady shot a deer about 50 feet away and the arrow was going so slow you could see it sliding into the deers side. The trajectory was like a rainbow.
But when I think back she had the build of Chris Rock and I don't think she was using a powerful bow.
While I've got bowhunters here, does anyone know how composite bows and modern yew/fiberglass longbows compare to compound bows?
I was sort of interested in either a composite Mongol style bow or a Pacific Yew company longbow.
But when I think back she had the build of Chris Rock and I don't think she was using a powerful bow.
While I've got bowhunters here, does anyone know how composite bows and modern yew/fiberglass longbows compare to compound bows?
I was sort of interested in either a composite Mongol style bow or a Pacific Yew company longbow.
Cobray, you have to have more strength/stamina to shoot a longbow at the same velocity as a compound bow. You probably knew that. A compound bow has a "let-off" which is at the end of the draw. It feels like you're holding next to nothing at full-draw, when actually the limbs are holding a LOT of energy. The cams on a compund bow allow you to achieve this let-off. A longbow is a different animal altogether.
Yes, you CAN see an arrow do the "rainbow" into an animal or target. This is seen regardless of who is shooting the arrow, although it is more observable at longer distances. As has been said before, arrows don't fly at anywhere NEAR the velocity of even the relatively SLOW .45acp. In fact, they fly at around 3X slower!! The difference is the slicing and cutting power of the modern broadhead tip. These are razorblades. Literally. It doesn't take a whole lot of velocity (240 fps?) for a triple or quadruple razorblade to FULLY penetrate the body of a deer, bear, elk, etc. causing immediate and immense trauma and blood-loss. With an ideal double-lung shot (not particularly difficult given the correct positioning of the animal before release), death is often ten or fewer seconds away. As hunting goes, that is very humane.
**I'd love to get a few more responses to this poll before I take it back to the folks at Glocktalk.com and show them that not EVERYONE believes that the Glock 21 is the deadliest weapon ever invented. I should add that I myself own a G21. It is an excellent handgun and I LOVE mine. I just wouldn't go bear hunting with it. Please vote.
Yes, you CAN see an arrow do the "rainbow" into an animal or target. This is seen regardless of who is shooting the arrow, although it is more observable at longer distances. As has been said before, arrows don't fly at anywhere NEAR the velocity of even the relatively SLOW .45acp. In fact, they fly at around 3X slower!! The difference is the slicing and cutting power of the modern broadhead tip. These are razorblades. Literally. It doesn't take a whole lot of velocity (240 fps?) for a triple or quadruple razorblade to FULLY penetrate the body of a deer, bear, elk, etc. causing immediate and immense trauma and blood-loss. With an ideal double-lung shot (not particularly difficult given the correct positioning of the animal before release), death is often ten or fewer seconds away. As hunting goes, that is very humane.
**I'd love to get a few more responses to this poll before I take it back to the folks at Glocktalk.com and show them that not EVERYONE believes that the Glock 21 is the deadliest weapon ever invented. I should add that I myself own a G21. It is an excellent handgun and I LOVE mine. I just wouldn't go bear hunting with it. Please vote.