Big 2A Win in CA!

50 shooter

New member
Here's a brief summary of FAQ:

1. What did the Ninth Circuit three-judge panel hold? The Ninth Circuit held that the entirety of California Penal Code section 32310 is unconstitutional under the Second Amendment. The ruling affirms the 2019 order of the Honorable Judge Roger Benitez of the United States District Court for the Southern District of California.

2. What does it mean that the Ninth Circuit applied strict scrutiny in this case? When courts review constitutional challenges to government action, they can apply one of various levels of review. Three of the most commonly levels of review, called levels of “scrutiny,” are rational basis, intermediate scrutiny, and strict scrutiny. Whether a law will be upheld as constitutional can depend heavily on which level of scrutiny is applied to evaluate the constitutionality of a law ... What makes the Duncan ruling so important is that it marks one of the few times strict scrutiny has been explicitly applied in a Second Amendment case. While CRPA is thrilled that this decision struck the ban on magazines over 10 rounds, the court’s application of strict scrutiny is also great news for current and future Second Amendment cases in California. This precedent will no doubt help CRPA in its challenges to numerous other infringements the state has imposed on the right to bear arms.

3. What did the Ninth Circuit say about the use of intermediate scrutiny? Since the Heller and McDonald decisions, CRPA has been disappointed to see courts apply intermediate scrutiny in name only ... the Ninth Circuit finally gave us the fair analysis we’ve been waiting for. While the panel found that strict scrutiny applies, it also conducted a review of California’s magazine ban under intermediate scrutiny and found that it would not survive that more permissive standard either. According to the court, the statute was simply not a reasonable fit to the important public safety interests that it was enacted to serve. As the court writes, “[w]hile the precise contours of intermediate scrutiny may vary, this much is certain: It has bite. It is a demanding test.” And, in what appears to be a clear criticism of the bad-faith review of other circuits, the court states that “intermediate scrutiny cannot approximate the deference of rational basis review.”

4. Does this mean that it is now lawful to own or possess magazines over 10 rounds in California? YES!

5. Can I start buying or selling magazines over 10 rounds in California today? NO!

6. Can I use magazines over 10 rounds that I lawfully acquired at a shooting range? YES!

7. Can I carry the magazines I lawfully acquired with a firearm pursuant to a carry license? YES!

8. I own magazines over 10 rounds that are currently out of state, can I bring them back to California now? NO!

9. Can I travel outside of California with magazines over 10 rounds that I lawfully acquired and then bring them back into California? NO!

10. What are the penalties for violating California’s magazine restrictions? Anyone who “manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazines” can be charged with either a misdemeanor punishable by up to a year imprisonment or felony punishable by up to 3 years imprisonment (known as a “wobbler”). Until it is clear that Judge Benitez’s 2019 stay order is lifted, law enforcement might seek to enforce these provisions, exposing you to criminal liability.

11. How does the court’s ruling affect California’s “nuisance” provision? While law enforcement might in fact seize so-called “large capacity” magazines as a “nuisance” under Penal Code section 32390, it is our attorneys’ view that there is no legal authority for it to do so—at least not for those who lawfully acquired their magazines. In fact, our attorneys believe section 32390 is unenforceable against at least lawfully acquired “large capacity” magazines, regardless of this ruling, as it was never intended to apply to them ... In any event, even if our attorneys’ analysis of section 32390 is wrong, the Duncan decision makes clear that it is unconstitutional and thus unenforceable. The notion that an item whose possession is protected by the Second Amendment can be seized by government provided there is no criminal penalty is absurd.

12. What’s next for the Duncan appeal? At this point, that is largely up to Attorney General Becerra and the judges of the Ninth Circuit. The State might choose to accept the panel’s decision, or it could petition the three-judge panel to reconsider its ruling and/or petition the entire Ninth Circuit to rehear the case en banc. And even if the State chooses not to seek rehearing, a judge of the Ninth Circuit might call for a vote to take the case en banc anyway. If rehearing is ordered, additional briefing may be requested, another date for oral argument will be set, and another decision from the Ninth will issue. At that point, the losing party will decide whether to ask the Supreme Court to weigh in by filing a petition for writ of certiorari ... Alternatively, the State could seek direct review by the United States Supreme Court. That avenue will require briefing by the parties on whether the Court should review the Ninth Circuit’s decision and, if the Court chooses to do so, additional briefing and oral argument ... Either way, this process can take months or years.

13. Where can I view the filings in the Duncan v. Becerra lawsuit? All case filings can be viewed online for free at http://michellawyers.com/duncan-v-becerra/.

14. Who is responsible for litigating Duncan v. Becerra? The California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA), with financial support from the National Rifle Association and The CRPA Foundation (CRPAF) filed this lawsuit after hearing the concerns, outrage, and fear from members who were being forced by the passage of Prop 63 and Senate Bill

Metal God, yeah it's sad to see what's become of Calguns. Used to be a great site but the democrats have taken it over also!
 
50 shooter said:
4. Does this mean that it is now lawful to own or possess magazines over 10 rounds in California? YES!

5. Can I start buying or selling magazines over 10 rounds in California today? NO!

6. Can I use magazines over 10 rounds that I lawfully acquired at a shooting range? YES!

7. Can I carry the magazines I lawfully acquired with a firearm pursuant to a carry license? YES!

8. I own magazines over 10 rounds that are currently out of state, can I bring them back to California now? NO!

9. Can I travel outside of California with magazines over 10 rounds that I lawfully acquired and then bring them back into California? NO!
Thank you for this summary. I think this information is what most of the non-lawyers among us (particularly those in California) want and need to know.
 

Metal god

New member
Yes , thank you very much 50 Shooter

That tracks with my understanding but with much greater detail . :cool:

I don't see how this gets past an en banc rehearing in are favor . We will almost certainly lose the en-banc and then a refusal to hear by the SCOTUS . I would love to see the AG try to go straight to the SCOTUS . They would have a split and I'd think would need resolving . Then again with Roberts , be careful what you ask for . He has shown to legislate from the bench so who knows what he might do :rolleyes: . .
 

50 shooter

New member
Glad I can help, everyone needs to have this info, not just Californians. I would think that people in other states could use this info also if they have to deal with a mag ban.

As far as the stay still being in place, I believe they have until the 28th to go for an appeal. If they ask for an en banc hearing we'll be waiting even longer. That and if they decide to go to SCOTUS.

Downside to this is that if they lose, we will win bigly! It will do away with any mag ban in the U.S. and further help us overturning other bans.
 

50 shooter

New member
CRPA has posted on their site that the state has requested an en banc hearing!

All we can hope for now is that it blows up in their faces!
 

Metal god

New member
All we can hope for now is that it blows up in their faces!

Not going to happen at the 9th . I haven't read over it all but it appears the 3 judge pannel ignored 9th circuit precedent and split with other circuits . That's all the judges need to rationalize reversing everything . It's to bad because keeping the status quo means the SCOTUS will not likely grant cert . A win for us would really force the SCOTUS hand which with Roberts , who knows how that would go .:rolleyes:
 

natman

New member
Not going to happen at the 9th . I haven't read over it all but it appears the 3 judge pannel ignored 9th circuit precedent and split with other circuits . That's all the judges need to rationalize reversing everything . It's to bad because keeping the status quo means the SCOTUS will not likely grant cert . A win for us would really force the SCOTUS hand which with Roberts , who knows how that would go .:rolleyes:

They may have ignored 9th circuit precedent, they may have split with other circuits, but they quoted Heller extensively and followed Supreme Court precedent. Which is what they're supposed to do. It will be interesting to see what semantic gymnastics the en banc panel uses to try and rationalize overturning it.
 

Metal god

New member
Lol , yep the anti’s quote Heller all the time as well and we all know the line the use . That line once again is all they need to rationalize their anti Decisions
 

natman

New member
Lol , yep the anti’s quote Heller all the time as well and we all know the line the use . That line once again is all they need to rationalize their anti Decisions

Duncan v Becerra repeated that firearms "commonly owned and typically used for lawful purposes" are protected by the Second Amendment. Strict scrutiny. All things we've been saying for years. Best of all:

But the ruling in Heller was “not unlimited” and rejected the idea that citizens may “keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” ... Heller thus recognized that certain exceptions to the Second Amendment apply. For example, weapons that are “dangerous and unusual” fall outside the Second Amendment’s protection.

[T]he Court cited an open-ended list of “presumptively lawful regulatory measures” that constitute acceptable “longstanding prohibitions” on firearm ownership....Such prohibitions include possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, prohibitions on carriage in sensitive locations, and conditions or qualifications on the commercial sale of firearms.Such prohibitions on carriage in sensitive locations, and conditions or qualifications on the commercial sale of firearms.

https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/DuncanvBecerraOpinion.pdf, pages 17-18

NOT an ability to ban whatever you like, as so many desperately want to believe.
 

Metal god

New member
Natman , not sure where you live but I’m in CA and I’ve been watching the 9th pretty close for the last 10yrs . If the en-banc panel does not ignore just about everything the 3 judge panel put forth and overturn there ruling . I’ll donate $100 to the charity of your choice .

I’ve watched it over and over again they either ignore our arguments or rationalize why they don’t hold water . Need not look any furter then the descent in this case to see where the full panel will go with this . Only way this goes are way is blind luck and we get a panel that is more favorable to us . My guess is the make up of the panel will be looked at as a 6 against to a 3 for us at the start based on who appointed them or there previous rulings . And the vote will pretty much be the same . It might go 5-4 against .
 

natman

New member
Natman , not sure where you live but I’m in CA and I’ve been watching the 9th pretty close for the last 10yrs . If the en-banc panel does not ignore just about everything the 3 judge panel put forth and overturn there ruling . I’ll donate $100 to the charity of your choice .

The dissent hinges on two things: First that the decision conflicts with other circuit decisions on the same subject, which it does. However, the decision is very much in line with the Supreme Court's decision in Heller.

Secondly, the dissent tries to make a case that strict scrutiny does not apply. The majority made a very convincing case that it does. The dissent differs. If strict scrutiny does not apply when dealing directly with a right specifically protected by constitutional amendment, when does it apply?

Finally, the dissent relies on the notion that a constitutional right is fulfilled if there is any shred of a way to fulfill it, i.e. if you can own any magazine of any capacity, then it's OK. No other constitutional right is fulfilled this way. It would be like saying you have a right to free speech if you are allowed to stand on a soapbox in Central Park on Tuesdays, but at no other place or time.

All that said, I'm from CA also and I'll be very pleasantly shocked if the en banc panel doesn't overturn it nevertheless.
 
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Natman said:
Secondly, the dissent tries to make a case that strict scrutiny does not apply. The majority made a very convincing case that it does. The dissent differs. If strict scrutiny does not apply when dealing directly with a right specifically protected by constitutional amendment, when does it apply?
The majority decision also makes the point that, although they think strict scrutiny applies, the ban would fail even if viewed through the lens of intermediate scrutiny.
 

Metal god

New member
Natman , I’m not disagreeing with you , only pointing out the anti’s don’t care . They only need one little tid bit to go on a rant like the 2nd does not allow any weapon to be owned for any reason or what ever that specific wording is . That’s all they need to rationalize any restrictions as being lawful as long as you can still own a firearm in some way .

I don’t remember the case specifically but our side argued and actually showed facts that the law that was being challenged actually did nothing for public safety . The judge actually said something like the law doesn’t need to produce the safety intended as long as it has the appearance of doing so . They will rationalize it anyway they can , it doesn’t matter what the facts are .
 
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natman

New member
The majority decision also makes the point that, although they think strict scrutiny applies, the ban would fail even if viewed through the lens of intermediate scrutiny.
Good point, and they were wise to do so. But trying to apply anything less that strict scrutiny is just another way of saying that the Constitution is served a la carte; you can pick and choose which parts you want to follow.
 

Metal god

New member
It is a la carte and there is many precedent to “rationalize” doing so . Was it Thomas that said it’s like the 2nd is treated like a second class right ? I’m not a fan of Trump but thank god he got two relatively Center right justices appointed . At least we know in the near future the supreme court will not likely go full woke on us .

I’m all for some change but shoving it all down our throats at once will only create divisions that may never be able to be reconciled . That is something that those on the extreme ends don’t seem to understand .
 

Python2020

New member
I'm new to guns and all this legal mumbo jumbo; can we buy larger than 10 clips now? I bought a revolver so it doesn't affect me right now...
 

Metal god

New member
No not at this time in CA . In California magazines capable of holding more than 10 rounds are not even available. If you were to ever try to buy any you would have to do it online from out of state which you cannot do at this time legally .
 
In the wake of the recent ruling that the entire California AWB is unconstitutional, I've received questions about this previous magazine capacity case. Can someone give us an update? Has the en banc hearing been held yet?
 
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