Best .308 Battle Rifle
- Thread starter branrot
- Start date
hksigwalther
New member
Poll?
I'm surprised there isn't a poll attached to this thread.
I'm surprised there isn't a poll attached to this thread.
I can't really tell you for sure, but I've been looking at the FN FALs lately. I've seen some really beautiful FAL's done up in custom camo and the such. They make aftermarket handguards that are like the Knights Armaments RAS too, so that's cool, but they have that for the HK's too. Anyways, they're both good.
A SIG 510 (can be had in .308, 7.5x55mm and a few other calibers).
Roller-locked like the G3, with a chamber indicator, and it is a damn
good LMG. A little bit of grease, and it will run for a very long time
without cleaning.
And one with a good barrel can hold 1 MOA at 300m, if not less.
Roller-locked like the G3, with a chamber indicator, and it is a damn
good LMG. A little bit of grease, and it will run for a very long time
without cleaning.
And one with a good barrel can hold 1 MOA at 300m, if not less.
I own a HK91, and my roommate has a FN-FAL. Of the two, I must say that I like my HK91 better, but I don't know if it is because it is mine, or if it is actually better.
The FN-FAL has an adjustable gas setting to deal with varying ammunition types. It has a bolt hold open for faster reloads. The HK91 is slow to reload, and can't handle some types of ammunition (Venezulan (?) CAVIM ammunition really did a number on my poor rifle ).
Both seem pretty accurate. I like the sights on my HK91 better than on the FAL - just put the post on whatever you want to hit.
But the one thing that I hate about the HK91 above all else is the cleaning portion of it. Normally, it is a breeze to disassemble and re-assemble. However, lately, the rollers on mine have refused to retract, and as a result, I can't get the bolt assembly back into the reciever. I hear that this happens to nearly all HK91 owners at one time or another, and damned if the bolt assembly isn't a pain to reassemble.
The FN-FAL has an adjustable gas setting to deal with varying ammunition types. It has a bolt hold open for faster reloads. The HK91 is slow to reload, and can't handle some types of ammunition (Venezulan (?) CAVIM ammunition really did a number on my poor rifle
).Both seem pretty accurate. I like the sights on my HK91 better than on the FAL - just put the post on whatever you want to hit.
But the one thing that I hate about the HK91 above all else is the cleaning portion of it. Normally, it is a breeze to disassemble and re-assemble. However, lately, the rollers on mine have refused to retract, and as a result, I can't get the bolt assembly back into the reciever. I hear that this happens to nearly all HK91 owners at one time or another, and damned if the bolt assembly isn't a pain to reassemble.
I have been wanting a "battle rifle" for awhile and I read these posts and I get more confused.
I am a deep H&K fan so I have always wanted a H&K 91. But those are so expensive. The AR10 definitely has the best ergomonics but the mags are hard to come by. Sorry guys I think FAL's are butt ugly - ugly enough I could never own one even if it shot 1/4 MOA all day long. I greatly prefer the pistol grip plus I think a M-14 is too long and barrel heavy.
It just seems that some company would build a rifle that met all of our requirements or at least one would be close enough to perfect to outweigh all the others.
I guess I will have to own one of each someday.
I am a deep H&K fan so I have always wanted a H&K 91. But those are so expensive. The AR10 definitely has the best ergomonics but the mags are hard to come by. Sorry guys I think FAL's are butt ugly - ugly enough I could never own one even if it shot 1/4 MOA all day long. I greatly prefer the pistol grip plus I think a M-14 is too long and barrel heavy.
It just seems that some company would build a rifle that met all of our requirements or at least one would be close enough to perfect to outweigh all the others.
I guess I will have to own one of each someday.
Marko Kloos
New member
I am really fond of the HK G3, but I am biased since that was my service rifle for four years. The FAL is also a fine rifle, although I never liked the long and lightweight receiver on it. My G3 has never failed with regular ammo, and those rifles had to endure a tremendous amount of abuse. It does do a number on brass, though, and one of the drawbacks of the roller-delayed blowback design is the high bolt speed, which necessitates good quality brass if you don't want to end up with case heads ripping off. Some surplus stuff does not work well in the G3 for that reason.
I do find myself shooting bolt guns far more often these days, and I concur with the poster who states that semi-auto capability is not a necessity for a good rifleman. I can get five high-quality bolt-action rifles for one CETME, and twenty for one HK91. Those who think that semi-auto is a necessity in the event of civil unrest may approach a house defended by a skilled rifleman armed with an Enfield and a case of .303 British on stripper clips. Volume of fire is good for scaring green troops into keeping their heads down...firepower is steel on target.
I do find myself shooting bolt guns far more often these days, and I concur with the poster who states that semi-auto capability is not a necessity for a good rifleman. I can get five high-quality bolt-action rifles for one CETME, and twenty for one HK91. Those who think that semi-auto is a necessity in the event of civil unrest may approach a house defended by a skilled rifleman armed with an Enfield and a case of .303 British on stripper clips. Volume of fire is good for scaring green troops into keeping their heads down...firepower is steel on target.
Nodakmarine
New member
The M-14. It's accurate, reliable, has an ambidextrious safety and magazine release, doesn't chuck brass into the next state, can be had with a regular stock (synthetic or wood) or pistol grip E2 or folding stock for those that prefer something more compact. Contrary to what Mad Dog claims about ALL scope mounts form the M-14, the Brookfield Precision Tool scope mount does NOT suck in the very least. I ought to know since I have one on my M-25 clone and have no problems with it at all. It's also a versatile weapon being able to be set up as a regular rack grade rifle, match grade rifles, long range sniping rifles, compact bush rifles with the folding stocks are VERY compact and also "sexy" with the BM-59 style folder, or can be set up in the E2 version if you want to dump a lot of rounds on target fairly quickly. The M-14 also has the best sights for the rifleman and a decent trigger to go with it. Even a rack grade trigger is better than either my FALs or HK91. Another thing to consider is that in the post-ban world, the M-14 can keep it's flash suppressor instead of having to have a loud, flash-enhancing muzzle brake found on post-ban FALs and HK clones. Sure, the magazines can cost around $25-$31 depending on weather you are looking at Chinese or USGI magazines but they are VERY well built and not as likely to get damaged as lighter weight magazines. I tend to look at mine as an investment in quality. No, the days of $5 and $10 USGI mags are probably gone but cheap FAL magazines are only one penstroke away from not bieng allowed to be imported anymore either.
My FAL comes in second loosing out to the M-14 in the area of a heavy trigger, crude sights, and on the metric rifles, a safety lever that is too small to manipulate without shifting your grip. The inch rifles are better in this area but that folding rear sight always seems to fold down at the worst possible times. The adjustable gas regulator is a nice touch but then again, I haven't had any problems with my other rifles that don't have this feature either. The cheap magazines of the FAL are a good selling point though as long as you are looking at metric magazines. The inch magazines run a little higher but like the M-14 magazines, I think they are a little more rugged. Of course, cheap magazines are around only as long as the powers that be will allow them to come into the country. Again, the flash suppressors (both the long L1A1 and G-series flash suppressors are pretty good but the shorter "combination flash suppressor, grenade launch" type isn't that good) but with a cheaper post-ban rifle, it's no flash suppression for you!
My HK-91 is my least favorite mainly because while it's accurate and reliable, that's it's only saving graces. The handguards heat up too fast, there is no bolt hold open device, I find the charging handle awkward to use, the magazine release is too far forward, the sights need a special tool to adjust, the trigger is WAY too heavy, the safety can't be manipulated without shifting your grip, ejected brass is seldom found so I wouldn't say the HK is "reloader friendly", the stock is too short for American style shooting, the recoil is sharper, putting the bolt head back on the carrier after cleaning is a real chore and cleaning the breech face and chamber area is hard to get at as well. Did I miss anything? Like I said, yes, it is reliable and yes, they are accurate but after that, their design really falls apart in the handeling chacteristics and not so much the dissasembly but the reassembly of them after taking them apart.
The M-14 also has the best sights for the rifleman and a decent trigger to go with it. Even a rack grade trigger is better than either my FALs or HK91. Another thing to consider is that in the post-ban world, the M-14 can keep it's flash suppressor instead of having to have a loud, flash-enhancing muzzle brake found on post-ban FALs and HK clones. Sure, the magazines can cost around $25-$31 depending on weather you are looking at Chinese or USGI magazines but they are VERY well built and not as likely to get damaged as lighter weight magazines. I tend to look at mine as an investment in quality. No, the days of $5 and $10 USGI mags are probably gone but cheap FAL magazines are only one penstroke away from not bieng allowed to be imported anymore either. My FAL comes in second loosing out to the M-14 in the area of a heavy trigger, crude sights, and on the metric rifles, a safety lever that is too small to manipulate without shifting your grip. The inch rifles are better in this area but that folding rear sight always seems to fold down at the worst possible times.
The adjustable gas regulator is a nice touch but then again, I haven't had any problems with my other rifles that don't have this feature either. The cheap magazines of the FAL are a good selling point though as long as you are looking at metric magazines. The inch magazines run a little higher but like the M-14 magazines, I think they are a little more rugged. Of course, cheap magazines are around only as long as the powers that be will allow them to come into the country. Again, the flash suppressors (both the long L1A1 and G-series flash suppressors are pretty good but the shorter "combination flash suppressor, grenade launch" type isn't that good) but with a cheaper post-ban rifle, it's no flash suppression for you! My HK-91 is my least favorite mainly because while it's accurate and reliable, that's it's only saving graces.
The handguards heat up too fast, there is no bolt hold open device, I find the charging handle awkward to use, the magazine release is too far forward, the sights need a special tool to adjust, the trigger is WAY too heavy, the safety can't be manipulated without shifting your grip, ejected brass is seldom found so I wouldn't say the HK is "reloader friendly", the stock is too short for American style shooting, the recoil is sharper, putting the bolt head back on the carrier after cleaning is a real chore and cleaning the breech face and chamber area is hard to get at as well. Did I miss anything? Like I said, yes, it is reliable and yes, they are accurate but after that, their design really falls apart in the handeling chacteristics and not so much the dissasembly but the reassembly of them after taking them apart.My vote goes to the HK G3A3.
It was the first rifle I shot and I shot it well. Now, ten years later, it's the type of rifle I've put more rounds through than any other rifle. Yes, I've seen jams and stoppages, but mostly with ill-maintained HK41s. Yes, at the end of the day your arms will be longer from carrying it around, but the ability to punch through trees and walls doesn't come without a cost.
Still, if I was allowed to own just one rifle or to be dropped off anywhere in a hostile environment, I'd take a G3.
It was the first rifle I shot and I shot it well. Now, ten years later, it's the type of rifle I've put more rounds through than any other rifle. Yes, I've seen jams and stoppages, but mostly with ill-maintained HK41s. Yes, at the end of the day your arms will be longer from carrying it around, but the ability to punch through trees and walls doesn't come without a cost.
Still, if I was allowed to own just one rifle or to be dropped off anywhere in a hostile environment, I'd take a G3.
dear lord! jumping into this arguement is like jumping into a lions den! i would have to say that the only answer to this question is it's your personal preference. the FN, M-14, and G-3 are all accurate, well made rifles. if i didn't have a choice, i would be happy with any one of the three. in all truthfulness, i would PREFER to have ALL of them!
The Springfield SAR8 is a great rifle. I recently bought one and shot it for the first time a few days ago.
Mine is the Greek made post-ban model with a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock and fake flash suppressor. The later SAR8 has the ugly aluminum receiver. The SAR3 is the Greek made pre-ban model.
Mine is the Greek made post-ban model with a Bell and Carlson thumbhole stock and fake flash suppressor. The later SAR8 has the ugly aluminum receiver. The SAR3 is the Greek made pre-ban model.
Greek SAR8 t-hole rifles can be had for $1,000-$1,200.
The t-hole can easily be replaced with the original type stock and pistol grip, but the required U.S. parts count is neccessary to be legal.
In this pic the SAR8 is below my Interport built rifle:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=975525&a=7157892&p=55568769&Sequence=1&res=high
The t-hole can easily be replaced with the original type stock and pistol grip, but the required U.S. parts count is neccessary to be legal.
In this pic the SAR8 is below my Interport built rifle:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=975525&a=7157892&p=55568769&Sequence=1&res=high