Best 10mm defense round (and why)

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atblis

New member
I've always wondered about light bullets in the 10mm

Everybody talks about overpenetration... Why not a light bullet 155 or so (maybe 135 even), that can take the high velocity, and optimally penetrate and expand?

My experience with the Hornady XTPs on deer has been very positive. I wonder if the 155 XTP might be the best 10mm bullet.

Personally, my bullet performance decisions are made based on hunting. I can't think of a better way to test bullets. Phone books, newspaper, water melons, ... whatever are interesting but...
 
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juliet charley

New member
Which gets us back to the absence of independent testing results. I think you would agree that in the absence of such testing results any assessment of DT's load performance (either positive or negative) is purely speculative.
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I have not made any assessment of DT's load performance other than I wouldn't carry it or recommend it based on the absence of indepent, professional testing and the lack of a historical performance record.

You can reasonably expect bullet performance to deteriorate at either end (fast or slow) of the recommended velocity range, and you do not achieve optimum bullet performance at the extreme ends of velocity range. When bullets are loaded at the extreme end of their velocity range, independent, professional testing becomes even more important.

DT's loadings might be "the best thing since sliced bread." On the other hand, Speer's .40 S&W loads with the same bullets might outperform them (and you are aware some data that would seem to support this). We don't know because we don't have the data on which to evaluate them. We do know, however, that there are proven, tested loads available--and that's generally a better alternative than an unknown. I will continue to urge caution when it comes to selecting DT as carry ammuniton.
 
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threegun

Moderator
When I carried the 10mm I opted for the CorBon 135 grain JHP @ 1450 FPS. My view was it gave me more weight and diameter than the 125 grain 357 mag (considered by many as the best man stopper). It also was very accurate in my G-20 and had very mild recoil.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
You can reasonably expect bullet performance to deteriorate at either end (fast or slow) of the recommended velocity range, and you do not achieve optimum bullet performance at the extreme ends of velocity range.
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That's speculation unless it's possible to show what criteria Speer uses to generate their recommended velocity range.

For all we know, they might be quoting the velocity range that provided optimum performance rather than merely the range in which the bullet could reasonably be expected not to "fail".
We don't know because we don't have the data on which to evaluate them.
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That's only true if it can be shown that the DT loads are pushing the bullets beyond the optimum performance range--which at this point is only speculation. Unless that can be shown to be the case, it's reasonable to rely on Speer's testing results.
 
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Nephilim-777

New member
Any that is loaded very hot.

Even if you miss, the sound concution and the insuing fireball will surely scare a bad guy to death. :eek:
 
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Marcus

New member
I`m not going to get into arguments about methodology and testing. I`d be happy with any of the DT JHP loads from 155-180gr. for defense. Ditto Corbon 150gr. JHP, Hornady 155gr. or 180gr. XTP and a few others. Even the mild JHP 10mm loads shoot .40S&W bullets at just over .40S&W velocities. Since my normal carry gun is a .40 S&W I don`t have a problem with that. I was lucky enough to get to do a little casual ballistic gel testing with Mike from Corbon and their 155hr. DPX load was very impressive. Testing was done through the standard 4 layers of heavy denim which I suppose is good but I don`t think I`ve ever seen anyone wearing 4 layers of denim clothing. So much for methodical testing. :p The good ol 175gr. Silvertip didn`t expand quite as much (by a tiny margin) but it penetrated a bit further and has a little more recoil. It`s much cheaper and I can put a lot of it through my gun to be absolutely certain the gun is reliable with it. Shoots well in my 1006 too. So that`s what I carry in it 90% of the time.
 
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juliet charley

New member
Here's some comments by Ammo Lab (David DiFabio):
In properly prepared and calibrated 10% ordnance gelatin using the 4 layer 14oz denim heavy cloth IWBA/FBI standard protocols the following products provide improved performance over all of the best in class 9mm and .40S&W loadings:

  • Winchester 175gr 10mm Silvertip
  • 125gr Winchester 9x23mm ST
  • 145gr .357 Magnum Winchester Silvertip
  • 230gr Winchester Ranger RA45T+P
  • Federal 230gr .45acp HST

Slightly smaller diameter/depth cavity sizes are created by the following loadings:
  • DoubleTap, ProLoad, and Georgia Arms 180gr and 155gr 10mm loadings
  • Remington, ProLoad, and Georgia Arms 185gr .45acp +P jhp
10mm Loadings with greater overall penetration depths but equal diameter temporal and permanent stretch cavities to the better 9mm and .40S&W loadings are:
  • DoubleTap 10mm XTP
  • Hornandy 10mm XTP
  • PMC 170gr jhp
  • Remington 180gr jhp
  • Federal 180gr jhp
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JohnKSa

Administrator
I wonder if he's saying that the middle group of loads provided "slightly smaller diameter/depth cavity sizes" compared to the best 9mm/40S&W loadings or compared to the first group of loads?

Also very interesting to see Federal's 180gr JHP in the third (best) group of loads. It's literally the lowest powered 10mm JHP on the market bar none. Kind of makes me think that the Hydra-Shok bullet doesn't deserve the bum rap it gets these days...

Amusing to note that with the DT 180gr XTP also in the group, that means that the third (best) group contains BOTH the most and least powerful 180gr JHP 10mm loadings available on the commercial market.
 
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Dr. Courtney

New member
I think Speer's recommended velocity ranges on the Gold Dots are a bit on the overconservative side to make people feel more comfortable buying their loaded ammo than buying some of the smaller ammo companies' ammo that is pushing the bullets faster. Most of the Gold Dots will hold together to much higher velocities than Speer's recommended range and will also meet a minimum penetration depth of 12" to much higher than their recommended range.

None of the Double Tap loadings of the Gold Dot bullet in .357 Sig or 10mm will fail to penetrate 12" in gelatin. If you want to find the real velocity threshold for a given bullet, load it in a muzzleloader (using a sabot) and slowly ramp up the velocity. Most 9mm and 10mm Gold Dots will get to at least 1800 FPS before they fail to penetrate 12". So there is no real need to worry about Gold Dot bullet failures at 1600 FPS and under.

As long as bullet penetration remains within the desired window, more energy is always a good thing because it implies greater prompt damage, a larger temporary cavity, and a larger pressure wave.

Michael Courtney
 
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Willy T

New member
180gr Hornady XTPs for in town. 180gr Cor-bon penetrators while out of town. Perfectly comfortable with both. Like DTs 10mm ammo but I have to double their list price because of shipping. Is there a cheaper way they can ship?
 
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Reyn

New member
I asked and got this response on DTs Golddots compared to Silvertips. The info i was getting wasnt that the Goldot failed as far as the bullet breaking up but when pushed at higher velocities the petals would fold up resulting in a smaller wound channel.

Originally Posted by Reyn
Im interested in how it performs compared to Doubletap Golddots in the 10mm. Ive done searches here and at www.tacticalforums.com. I didnt get much there as far as the Silvertips at 10mm velocity. I did read where Silvertips werent the best in gel compared to others. Seems GDs and Ranger are the top peformers. Ive also read here where there is an issue when GDs are pushed faster than the .40 velocity even though Speer has said DTs velocity are within there limits(what ive read). I did read one post where Ammo Lab stated the Silvertips performed better than the GDs at 10mm levels. Turbonatr also had pics of where the GDs petals folded back compared to the Silvertips which is consistent with what Ammo Labs post. Im just wondering if anyone had any links to any testing. Thanks.

ANWSER FROM AMMOLAB
High velocity Gold Dot .40 bullets in .40S&W and 10mm display consistent patterns from 1200-1700fps and the 180gr GD offers the most consistent performance. When tested in 04 the Pro Load 180gr products offered slightly larger and deeper wound channels than the Double Tap 180gr product using the same bullets. We have taken a large number of deer with the GD 155 and 180gr loadings over the years with 4"-6" guns and the 180gr loading consistently provides improved wound channels profiles.

The 10mm 175gr Silvertip from the Glock G29 provides a wound channel that is almost identical in profile to the "best in any handgun class" Winchester 230gr .45acp jhp+P loading. As with any life safety equipment one should always inspect all items/products to be relied upon.
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
The 10mm 175gr Silvertip from the Glock G29 provides a wound channel that is almost identical in profile to the "best in any handgun class" Winchester 230gr .45acp jhp+P loading.
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Hmmm... That contradicts the results from the same source posted by juliet charley which seem to indicate that there are five 10mm loadings that outperform the Silvertip.

Maybe I'm completely misunderstanding the information posted by juliet charley?
 
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JohnKSa

Administrator
Man, that's confusing...

Did they include any expansion & penetration figures to go with the explanation?
 
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Reyn

New member
Here is another post reference the silvertips.Personally i shoot both DTs and silvertips. :
Originally Posted by AndrewaV
Hello,
I recently purchased a smith and wesson 1006 10mm to go with my Glock 20 10mm. I am currently using Winchester 10mm silvertips as my carry ammo for self defense and concealed carry. I am looking at Georgia arms 155 gold dot or Double tap 165 grain gold dots in 10mm as a replacement. What do some of the other 10mm users carry?

Thanks in advance,
Andrew

AMMO LAB
Unless there is some accuracy or reliability issue with your gun/ammo it is a large step back to change from the ST you are using, no one makes a better 10mm product. If you could not get the STs for some reason it might be worth looking at a Gold Dot product. For those wanting hard barrier penetration Corbon's 180gr Bonded SP @1,300fps is an excellent penetrator.
 
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Willy T

New member
REVO,
Last time I checked would not ship outside of continental US. For me as much as I want to it is hard to do business with them. I wish they had retail resale much like I buy my Buffalo Bore ammo. Their ammo would be well accepted in Alaska. Until then We have Corbon. :rolleyes:
 
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BLKLABMAN

New member
Yesterday,I used DT 200gr CE JHP from G20 with a KKM 6" to take a 6 point at 28 yards.
The round worked perfectly.
For carry, I use the ST 175gr loads.
 
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