The Body Bagger
New member
There can be only one.......
bersa vs. walther
- Thread starter sterno
- Start date
There can be only one.......
Wildalaska
Moderator
OK...other than the fact that they are too big and bulky for a 380 (the Sig is slimmer)...
1. Parts are soft...I have seen broken firing pins, hammers, extractors (at least 2 of each I as I recall)..
2. The two I shot (sorry no recall as to model, but one was ;ate last year ) were absolute jammomatics...not saying much since the only 380 I have found which eats everything is the now discontinued Browning/Beretta
3. Parts and service have been, in the past, abysmal (not that I have tried to have once serviced in a few years since the last importer went belly up)...being said, Beretta sucks too. The lifetime warranty is a farce, since every tow years they get a new importer
4. Trigger pull on a new one thatI played with made the walther look good, ans thats not saying much.
Like I said, sorry to rain on the Bersa fest...but to my mind, the extra $$ for the SIG is worth it....
One of the worst things one can do in life is tell someone what they want to hear, rather than the truth. In point of fact, the Bersa is an inexpensive gun becasue it is a third world pistol made with third world mettalurgy...thats fine, to each his own, but there are better out there....
WildaintgonnawinapopularitycontesthereAlaska
1. Parts are soft...I have seen broken firing pins, hammers, extractors (at least 2 of each I as I recall)..
2. The two I shot (sorry no recall as to model, but one was ;ate last year ) were absolute jammomatics...not saying much since the only 380 I have found which eats everything is the now discontinued Browning/Beretta
3. Parts and service have been, in the past, abysmal (not that I have tried to have once serviced in a few years since the last importer went belly up)...being said, Beretta sucks too. The lifetime warranty is a farce, since every tow years they get a new importer
4. Trigger pull on a new one thatI played with made the walther look good, ans thats not saying much.
Like I said, sorry to rain on the Bersa fest...but to my mind, the extra $$ for the SIG is worth it....
One of the worst things one can do in life is tell someone what they want to hear, rather than the truth. In point of fact, the Bersa is an inexpensive gun becasue it is a third world pistol made with third world mettalurgy...thats fine, to each his own, but there are better out there....
WildaintgonnawinapopularitycontesthereAlaska
The Body Bagger
New member
So your own experience is the truth? All of the rest of those people who own them not to mention the gun magazine reviewers are wrong? 
Sorry Wild but if you don't mind I'm going to go with the popular opinion of both the professionals and the everyday common man. Call me crazy, but if you're the only person who states this llisting of problems and no one else has, well lets just say there's a little smilie guy somewhere raising a flag.......
lol
Sorry Wild but if you don't mind I'm going to go with the popular opinion of both the professionals and the everyday common man. Call me crazy, but if you're the only person who states this llisting of problems and no one else has, well lets just say there's a little smilie guy somewhere raising a flag....... lol
The Beretta Model 85 is one of the best .380's out there, but you pay a premium for it as you do with the other fine choice a Sig 230/232. However, everyone I know with the Bersa likes them, but I have no personal experience with one. This size and class of pistol has always been well served for me with a Makarov.
Wild,
I repsect your opinion, and do not doubt that you've had the experiences you say you've had. And you are certainly entitled to your opinions.
On the other hand, there are about a thousand other posters that have loved them, and I don't necessarily think all or most of those folks are completely wrong, either.
I repsect your opinion, and do not doubt that you've had the experiences you say you've had. And you are certainly entitled to your opinions.
On the other hand, there are about a thousand other posters that have loved them, and I don't necessarily think all or most of those folks are completely wrong, either.
"OK...other than the fact that they are too big and bulky for a 380 (the Sig is slimmer)..."
Who sets the standard? Yes, the Sig is slimmer, but so what? Hmm, it would make it easier to conceal, it is true, but the Bersa is still quite concealable. I don't consider that to be justification for twice the price tag.
"1. Parts are soft...I have seen broken firing pins, hammers, extractors (at least 2 of each I as I recall).."
Yes, there are MIM parts, that isn't at all uncommon today, most manufacturers have them now. I haven't heard of anyone having those sorts of problems, and they haven't been reported at the shop I go to, either. Maybe you got hold of a bad batch? Not to mention, there's this thing called a warranty. And why do I hear that these guys are lasting 6000+ rounds without failure?
"2. The two I shot (sorry no recall as to model, but one was ;ate last year ) were absolute jammomatics...not saying much since the only 380 I have found which eats everything is the now discontinued Browning/Beretta"
Yep -- I had jamming problems. It turned out that it doesn't like Wolf ammo all that much, and other than that it was my problem, improper lubrication, can't blame the gun for that. The general consensus of the user community is that this just isn't true.
"3. Parts and service have been, in the past, abysmal (not that I have tried to have once serviced in a few years since the last importer went belly up)...being said, Beretta sucks too. The lifetime warranty is a farce, since every tow years they get a new importer"
No comment -- it hasn't been an issue for me.
"4. Trigger pull on a new one thatI played with made the walther look good, ans thats not saying much."
That's not what I've encountered. Yes, it is better than a PPK. No, it isn't as good as my S&W revolver, but then again, what is? I find mine to be quite acceptable, better than I expected to find on a new handgun in this price range.
"...but to my mind, the extra $$ for the SIG is worth it...."
Ok, you are obviously a SIG fan. Your choice, go ahead and pay the extra bucks. It's your money. Oh, it seems that you just might be a dealer. Of SIG's, perhaps? Could it be that you want us to spend our extra bucks (assuming we had extra to spend), instead? I might be wrong, excuse me if I'm leery of your claims at this point. For me, at least, I don't think that the extra $$$'s for the SIG is worth it.
"One of the worst things one can do in life is tell someone what they want to hear, rather than the truth."
Yep, you are quite right. The truth is what we want to hear. I'm telling everyone what I've actually encountered. I trust that you are, too.
"In point of fact, the Bersa is an inexpensive gun becasue it is a third world pistol made with third world mettalurgy..."
Yes, it is made in a country that is not a "recognized" industrial power, but that really has no bearing on the matter, there is no secret to making quality steel and alloys, there is nothing keeping the manufacturer from buying fabrication machinery elsewhere and bringing it there. Fact is, their metallurgy isn't markedly different than anyone else's. What they do have is inexpensive labor. Personally, I'm not all that fond of the idea of supporting a bloated German economy with their labor unions, I'd rather support an up-and-coming "third world" economy. Especially given the difference in price.
"...thats fine, to each his own"
Yep -- that's quite true. If you want to spend the extra money, well, it's your money. Be my guest.
"but there are better out there..."
That's debatable. Even then, it is comparing a BMW to a Toyota. No, the Toyota isn't as refined, but it isn't supposed to be, and it is offered at a lower price point. Personally, I have better things to spend my money on than an over priced Euro-import.
Who sets the standard? Yes, the Sig is slimmer, but so what? Hmm, it would make it easier to conceal, it is true, but the Bersa is still quite concealable. I don't consider that to be justification for twice the price tag.
"1. Parts are soft...I have seen broken firing pins, hammers, extractors (at least 2 of each I as I recall).."
Yes, there are MIM parts, that isn't at all uncommon today, most manufacturers have them now. I haven't heard of anyone having those sorts of problems, and they haven't been reported at the shop I go to, either. Maybe you got hold of a bad batch? Not to mention, there's this thing called a warranty. And why do I hear that these guys are lasting 6000+ rounds without failure?
"2. The two I shot (sorry no recall as to model, but one was ;ate last year ) were absolute jammomatics...not saying much since the only 380 I have found which eats everything is the now discontinued Browning/Beretta"
Yep -- I had jamming problems. It turned out that it doesn't like Wolf ammo all that much, and other than that it was my problem, improper lubrication, can't blame the gun for that. The general consensus of the user community is that this just isn't true.
"3. Parts and service have been, in the past, abysmal (not that I have tried to have once serviced in a few years since the last importer went belly up)...being said, Beretta sucks too. The lifetime warranty is a farce, since every tow years they get a new importer"
No comment -- it hasn't been an issue for me.
"4. Trigger pull on a new one thatI played with made the walther look good, ans thats not saying much."
That's not what I've encountered. Yes, it is better than a PPK. No, it isn't as good as my S&W revolver, but then again, what is? I find mine to be quite acceptable, better than I expected to find on a new handgun in this price range.
"...but to my mind, the extra $$ for the SIG is worth it...."
Ok, you are obviously a SIG fan. Your choice, go ahead and pay the extra bucks. It's your money. Oh, it seems that you just might be a dealer. Of SIG's, perhaps? Could it be that you want us to spend our extra bucks (assuming we had extra to spend), instead? I might be wrong, excuse me if I'm leery of your claims at this point. For me, at least, I don't think that the extra $$$'s for the SIG is worth it.
"One of the worst things one can do in life is tell someone what they want to hear, rather than the truth."
Yep, you are quite right. The truth is what we want to hear. I'm telling everyone what I've actually encountered. I trust that you are, too.
"In point of fact, the Bersa is an inexpensive gun becasue it is a third world pistol made with third world mettalurgy..."
Yes, it is made in a country that is not a "recognized" industrial power, but that really has no bearing on the matter, there is no secret to making quality steel and alloys, there is nothing keeping the manufacturer from buying fabrication machinery elsewhere and bringing it there. Fact is, their metallurgy isn't markedly different than anyone else's. What they do have is inexpensive labor. Personally, I'm not all that fond of the idea of supporting a bloated German economy with their labor unions, I'd rather support an up-and-coming "third world" economy. Especially given the difference in price.
"...thats fine, to each his own"
Yep -- that's quite true. If you want to spend the extra money, well, it's your money. Be my guest.
"but there are better out there..."
That's debatable. Even then, it is comparing a BMW to a Toyota. No, the Toyota isn't as refined, but it isn't supposed to be, and it is offered at a lower price point. Personally, I have better things to spend my money on than an over priced Euro-import.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Sigh................
Yep, ya see, every time someone bucks the crowd, its like....Democratic Underground......out come the ad hominem attacks....
Now the original poster asked :
In the chorus of Bersa lovers, one voice gets raised...that maybe, just maybe they aint painted on top of the Sistine Chapel pointing towards a Adam while a chorus of angels trrills glory glory...and what happens next...out come the snarls...How dare you think that our beloved Bersas are not the second com ing!...Grrrr
Well anyway, not that Im gonna conviince anyone (sort of like trying to convice the Pope that the Resrrectiion didn not OCCUR)...heres a few responses....
So...the original poster is looking for info..I gave it to him...if he was coming to me to buy a 380 I wouldnt steer him to a Bersa, despite the fact its far more profitable for a dealer top sell Bersas than some others...
OK we have established then that the SIG is slimmer...now for you that might not be enough, but for others it might....
ASnd..because others do thats OK?...I for one am not a MIM fan, especially where the MIM is MIMed in less than First World conditions...look at Kimbers MIM pronblems
Well I have, and Ive had reports from other dealers too..
Maybe I did. On the othjer hand, have experienced Bersa for as long as they have been imported and having seen their quality over the years doesnt make me real enthusiastic...and as to the 6000 rounds...thats fine, Ill accept that...are you willing to accept that there are those that arent lasting?
So you did have jamming problems? So my observation is true then...aI wont even get into general consnsus issues since we are talking about the blind love for an item by certain folks....
But it is for others....
OK listen, Ive shot literally 100 PPK of various generations, shot several Bersas and triggter pulled about 20 others, including one yesterday...the Bersas were universally worse...
That says it all doesnt it...its OK for a CHEAP gun....why not buy a Makorov then
Actually, although we have SIGs in stock, we are not a true SIG dealer. And we sell very few 380s, not many folks play with 380 in Alaska. And quite frankly, I could do better selling Bersa than SIGs in a dollars and cents evaluation. We chose not to, the hassle itsnt worth it.
That says it all...YOU made a CHOICE base d on your unique circumstances, politcal leanings and needs......the original poster wasnt concerned with that....
Actually I rate Toyotas over BMWs (in a similar price point)...but for you, since it all comes donmw to price, why not chose a Makarov?
WildanywayenoughofthisAlaska
Yep, ya see, every time someone bucks the crowd, its like....Democratic Underground......out come the ad hominem attacks....
Now the original poster asked :
In the chorus of Bersa lovers, one voice gets raised...that maybe, just maybe they aint painted on top of the Sistine Chapel pointing towards a Adam while a chorus of angels trrills glory glory...and what happens next...out come the snarls...How dare you think that our beloved Bersas are not the second com ing!...Grrrr
Well anyway, not that Im gonna conviince anyone (sort of like trying to convice the Pope that the Resrrectiion didn not OCCUR)...heres a few responses....
So...the original poster is looking for info..I gave it to him...if he was coming to me to buy a 380 I wouldnt steer him to a Bersa, despite the fact its far more profitable for a dealer top sell Bersas than some others...
OK we have established then that the SIG is slimmer...now for you that might not be enough, but for others it might....
ASnd..because others do thats OK?...I for one am not a MIM fan, especially where the MIM is MIMed in less than First World conditions...look at Kimbers MIM pronblems
Well I have, and Ive had reports from other dealers too..
Maybe I did. On the othjer hand, have experienced Bersa for as long as they have been imported and having seen their quality over the years doesnt make me real enthusiastic...and as to the 6000 rounds...thats fine, Ill accept that...are you willing to accept that there are those that arent lasting?
So you did have jamming problems? So my observation is true then...aI wont even get into general consnsus issues since we are talking about the blind love for an item by certain folks....
But it is for others....
OK listen, Ive shot literally 100 PPK of various generations, shot several Bersas and triggter pulled about 20 others, including one yesterday...the Bersas were universally worse...
That says it all doesnt it...its OK for a CHEAP gun....why not buy a Makorov then
Actually, although we have SIGs in stock, we are not a true SIG dealer. And we sell very few 380s, not many folks play with 380 in Alaska. And quite frankly, I could do better selling Bersa than SIGs in a dollars and cents evaluation. We chose not to, the hassle itsnt worth it.
That says it all...YOU made a CHOICE base d on your unique circumstances, politcal leanings and needs......the original poster wasnt concerned with that....
Actually I rate Toyotas over BMWs (in a similar price point)...but for you, since it all comes donmw to price, why not chose a Makarov?
WildanywayenoughofthisAlaska
Hi all, been lurking for awhile here love all the info, I was hesitant to register due to the fact that im one of the things most people hate on gun forums, a democrate, however i love guns, am in the process of getting my ccw, and am cosidering a bersa. The reason i signed up now was to point out that i find it amusing wild doesnt trust third world country manufacturing, but in his signature line he quotes the largest 3rd world star of all time...Bob Marley...lol, anyway if ya all can get past my liberal bent i look forward to future discussion...and more than likely debate...lol
d
d
If you found any sort of personal attack (or "snarl") in my response, then you were really stretching and looking (or maybe hoping) for something that wasn't there, in reality.
I note that you didn't quote the first my sentence that said I respected your opinion.
You were disagreeing with the majority. No problem there, as indicated in my initial response. It seems, however, that you certainly resent the majority disagreeing backatcha. Maybe you're right, and all of them are ignorant. Or maybe they all sell Bersas for huge profit.
I note that you didn't quote the first my sentence that said I respected your opinion.
You were disagreeing with the majority. No problem there, as indicated in my initial response. It seems, however, that you certainly resent the majority disagreeing backatcha. Maybe you're right, and all of them are ignorant. Or maybe they all sell Bersas for huge profit.
The Body Bagger
New member
Welcome DMac if you're here to learn and talk about guns, I wouldn't see why you'd have any problems. I have friends who are democrats like yourself that believe in the 2nd amendment. They are just as adamant about their rights to keep and bear arms as I am and I have no problems remaining friends. Welcome again.
Well, from the start I wasn't even considering a Sig or Beretta. I'm not too fond of Sigs and the Beretta is out of my price range. It came down to the Makarov or the Bersa. I was turned off by the grip on the Mak being at such a right angle to the barrel and I don't find that to be very comfortable. I also didn't like the 9x18 caliber or the bottom mag release. The fact that they're all surplus was the clincher.
For me, the Bersa is the right choice for my next pistol.
I do apreciate the flip side of the coin. I know that all manufacturers put out some lemons though. There isn't one thread on this forum about a model or brand of firearm where you don't have people who love and people who hate them. I guess it's really about use, taste, and expectation.
I really wish I could afford a Beretta .380. My setpdad has one that's about 20 years old and it hasn't jammed on his once, and he doesn't exactly baby it.
For me, the Bersa is the right choice for my next pistol.
I do apreciate the flip side of the coin. I know that all manufacturers put out some lemons though. There isn't one thread on this forum about a model or brand of firearm where you don't have people who love and people who hate them. I guess it's really about use, taste, and expectation.
I really wish I could afford a Beretta .380. My setpdad has one that's about 20 years old and it hasn't jammed on his once, and he doesn't exactly baby it.
Wildalaska
Moderator
Totally consistent, you support whatever is good..Id eat an argentiian steak, but I wouldnt buy an argentinain gun...unless it was an 09...I likie curry, but wouldnt buy an Ishapore Enfield......
WildirieAlaska
I was very pleased to find this thread, as I am interested in the Bersa .380.
I examined two tonight at a dealer. The store's policy wouldn't let them take off the trigger lock, so I don't know how smooth the hammer-trigger action is. The slides on both made a sort of sliding raspy noise as they were cycled, probably due to the steel slide working against the aluminum frame.
Does that noise smooth out and the slide action slick up if one lubes with Break-Free and fires maybe 200 rounds? How good is the action as one cocks the hammer by thumb?
Does the nickel finish chip or abrade much?
The only cosmetic downside I saw is that they leave quite a few toolmarks around the firing pin hole in the slide. Fit of the right grip at the top is better than on most Walthers, and that impressed me. I think it will keep lint and dust out of the action.
My other main choice in a .380 auto would be the Beretta M85, which should be reliable, but which costs far more. I once had a Beretta M34 that was okay, but shot rather generous groups at 25 yards. (Big saucer or small dinner plate size groups, which were too big, I felt.)
So: How does the friction on that slide action sound after shooting the gun some?
Lone Star
I examined two tonight at a dealer. The store's policy wouldn't let them take off the trigger lock, so I don't know how smooth the hammer-trigger action is. The slides on both made a sort of sliding raspy noise as they were cycled, probably due to the steel slide working against the aluminum frame.
Does that noise smooth out and the slide action slick up if one lubes with Break-Free and fires maybe 200 rounds? How good is the action as one cocks the hammer by thumb?
Does the nickel finish chip or abrade much?
The only cosmetic downside I saw is that they leave quite a few toolmarks around the firing pin hole in the slide. Fit of the right grip at the top is better than on most Walthers, and that impressed me. I think it will keep lint and dust out of the action.
My other main choice in a .380 auto would be the Beretta M85, which should be reliable, but which costs far more. I once had a Beretta M34 that was okay, but shot rather generous groups at 25 yards. (Big saucer or small dinner plate size groups, which were too big, I felt.)
So: How does the friction on that slide action sound after shooting the gun some?
Lone Star
Desertscout1
New member
When you shoot it, you can't hear it and doesn't affect the operation or accuracy of the gun in the least.
Combat Kenny
New member
PPK vs Bersa
Hi
Just wanted to add a couple of points. First of all, I got both of them, PPK for me and Bersa for the wife. Someone once said, PPK, either you love them or you hate them. If it don't jam on you, you love it. If it does jam on you, you hate it. Well, I got a S&W PPK/s and it has not jammed on me yet. Then there is the price, yes, 450+ is about average. But you are paying for the name too. It is like buying a Colt 1911 and buying a Hi Point. What are you buying? Colt 1911 and PP/PPK are pistols that made a difference in gun history. Hi Point and Bersa has not yet gone to that point, I would say. PPK was introduced in 1931 and is still popular today. Maybe, 007 had a hand in it, if you like James Bond. I do like both guns. They are both blow backs so, the kick is about the same. The sizes are about the same. Many people do say, Bersa is a nice clone of the PPK. I do agree, PPK was first and the lines of the guns are close. Still there are different physical advantages to both guns. PPK has a round indicator that can be seen and touched. Bersa has a manual slide catch. But the main thing is what do you want it for, name, price, safety, collection for a part of history or 007.
Good luck to you and good shooting
Hi
Just wanted to add a couple of points. First of all, I got both of them, PPK for me and Bersa for the wife. Someone once said, PPK, either you love them or you hate them. If it don't jam on you, you love it. If it does jam on you, you hate it. Well, I got a S&W PPK/s and it has not jammed on me yet. Then there is the price, yes, 450+ is about average. But you are paying for the name too. It is like buying a Colt 1911 and buying a Hi Point. What are you buying? Colt 1911 and PP/PPK are pistols that made a difference in gun history. Hi Point and Bersa has not yet gone to that point, I would say. PPK was introduced in 1931 and is still popular today. Maybe, 007 had a hand in it, if you like James Bond. I do like both guns. They are both blow backs so, the kick is about the same. The sizes are about the same. Many people do say, Bersa is a nice clone of the PPK. I do agree, PPK was first and the lines of the guns are close. Still there are different physical advantages to both guns. PPK has a round indicator that can be seen and touched. Bersa has a manual slide catch. But the main thing is what do you want it for, name, price, safety, collection for a part of history or 007.
Good luck to you and good shooting
I'd like to add my .02.. I've owned a Sig 232 and a Bersa .380. The Sig was definetly built more precise, more quality better finished. BUT they were equally as accurate, reliable, concealable. AND the Bersa did NOT give me slide bite AND seemed to have less recoil. Not 100% sure this tho. It was close. AND the Bersa was 1/3 the price.. I liked both but the Bersa was a heck of a bang for the buck gun..
I just picked up a Bersa today in fact. I fired 100 rounds through it before I got it home and there wasnt a single problem. I have to say that I really don't think the size difference between the Bersa/232/PPK is even worth thinking about. I held all three in my hand before I bought this one, and the difference was imperceptable to my mind, especially if you plan to carry IWB.
Anyone of the three guns will simply disapear in the waistband. Yes, they are all oversized for .380, but really how shootable are the tiny little .380s? I tried the KelTec P3AT while I was at the shop as well, and yeah its TINY. It's also a pinky hanger with a long gritty trigger pull. I could tell right there that i wouldnt be able to shoot it worth a damn. With the Bersa/PPK/232 size you can actually HIT your targets quite easily at any reasonable defensive range, and that's right out of the box, not after years of work.
With that said, if money was no object to me I probably would have walked out with the Sig232, that is a gorgeous pistol and you can really tell that it is built better and will probably last longer than the Bersa, but at half the price the Bersa will go bang when you need it to. It isnt necessarily going to be a gun to leave to the grandchildren, but it is a perfectly suitable tool for CCW. The overriding factor is that it does work quite well and it hits what you aim it at, and it is remarkably easy to carry. I really don't ask much more than that from my working guns.
Anyone of the three guns will simply disapear in the waistband. Yes, they are all oversized for .380, but really how shootable are the tiny little .380s? I tried the KelTec P3AT while I was at the shop as well, and yeah its TINY. It's also a pinky hanger with a long gritty trigger pull. I could tell right there that i wouldnt be able to shoot it worth a damn. With the Bersa/PPK/232 size you can actually HIT your targets quite easily at any reasonable defensive range, and that's right out of the box, not after years of work.
With that said, if money was no object to me I probably would have walked out with the Sig232, that is a gorgeous pistol and you can really tell that it is built better and will probably last longer than the Bersa, but at half the price the Bersa will go bang when you need it to. It isnt necessarily going to be a gun to leave to the grandchildren, but it is a perfectly suitable tool for CCW. The overriding factor is that it does work quite well and it hits what you aim it at, and it is remarkably easy to carry. I really don't ask much more than that from my working guns.