bersa vs. walther
- Thread starter sterno
- Start date
Well, I don't have a PPK available for comparison, but they do see to me to be about the same size. And about the same size and several ounces lighter than a Makarov. As far as the quality of the Bersa is considered, I'm suitably impressed with mine. I bought mine NIB only about 3 weeks ago and I've only got somewhat more than 700 rounds through it now, and that's not a whole lot of time to evaluate the pistol for durability and such, but I've had no major problems with mine so far. I was having some feeding problems, but I think that is a combiniation of not being really broken in well and I don't think I was using enough lube on the metal-to-metal moving surfaces. My fault, can't blame the gun for that, in other words. Bersa Thunder .380's in general have a tendency for the grip screws to work loose every 100 rounds or so (mine does), supposedly a little locktite on the threads clears that up but I haven't gotten around to doing that yet. In general, the weapon seems well made. And they have a reputation for durability, although I haven't had mine long enough to give you a first hand report on that. Accuracy has been remarkable, I'm impressed. Aesthetically, the only negative I have against it is that it has an external trigger linkage, but it seems to work ok and right now that's all I really care about. Both the DA and SA trigger are pretty good, much better than I expected out of an inexpensive pistol. All in all, I think it is one of the best values in a new pistol out there. The general consensus at the range/shop I shoot at is that it would be worth twice the price.
Just like everything else in this world, it isn't perfect, and in the spirit of full disclosure here are the negatives that I have encountered: First, there's that annoying little problem of the grip screws -- not a biggie, but a problem nonetheless. Hey, they had to have give us something to gripe about! The external trigger linkage might be a source of problems down the line or when CCW'ing, it may collect lint, so make sure you keep it clean. Sometimes the automatic slide stop at the end of the magazine doesn't work -- this seems to be crud related and doesn't start happening until 100 or more rounds have been fired since the last cleaning -- again, not a real big problem. It is a minor annoyance at the range and shouldn't be a CCW issue if you keep it clean. The gun only comes with 1 magazine, and be prepared to shell out $30 or more for spare Bersa factory mags. ProMags are the only 3rd party mags that I have heard of, I got 2 of them (just over $15 apiece plus shipping from Midway) -- some people don't like them, but the ones that I have seem to work Ok, but I'll just be using them as range mags, I have 2 factory mags for SD ammo. Another major gripe is the lack of 3rd party support -- not much in the way of specific designed holsters are out there for it -- yet. But it is close enough in dimensions to the PPK and the Makarov that there's enough out there that work well enough. There seem to be no 3rd party grips out there for it at all. None. Hopefully that will change as more of these little gems get into circulation. That said, I really don't mind the factory grips, they work. One last problem that I have encountered that I haven't heard discussed is that after firing 450 rounds through the gun this week, I got a little "bite" from the beavertail tang on the base of my thumb -- not from the hammer or the slide, but from the beavertail itself, there is a slightly rough edge on the safety side of mine. Not a big problem, and may be isolated to just my gun.
All in all, I'm pleased with the one I have. It is well worth the money. In my opinion, this is an inexpensive gun, but not a cheap gun.
Just like everything else in this world, it isn't perfect, and in the spirit of full disclosure here are the negatives that I have encountered: First, there's that annoying little problem of the grip screws -- not a biggie, but a problem nonetheless. Hey, they had to have give us something to gripe about! The external trigger linkage might be a source of problems down the line or when CCW'ing, it may collect lint, so make sure you keep it clean. Sometimes the automatic slide stop at the end of the magazine doesn't work -- this seems to be crud related and doesn't start happening until 100 or more rounds have been fired since the last cleaning -- again, not a real big problem. It is a minor annoyance at the range and shouldn't be a CCW issue if you keep it clean. The gun only comes with 1 magazine, and be prepared to shell out $30 or more for spare Bersa factory mags. ProMags are the only 3rd party mags that I have heard of, I got 2 of them (just over $15 apiece plus shipping from Midway) -- some people don't like them, but the ones that I have seem to work Ok, but I'll just be using them as range mags, I have 2 factory mags for SD ammo. Another major gripe is the lack of 3rd party support -- not much in the way of specific designed holsters are out there for it -- yet. But it is close enough in dimensions to the PPK and the Makarov that there's enough out there that work well enough. There seem to be no 3rd party grips out there for it at all. None. Hopefully that will change as more of these little gems get into circulation. That said, I really don't mind the factory grips, they work. One last problem that I have encountered that I haven't heard discussed is that after firing 450 rounds through the gun this week, I got a little "bite" from the beavertail tang on the base of my thumb -- not from the hammer or the slide, but from the beavertail itself, there is a slightly rough edge on the safety side of mine. Not a big problem, and may be isolated to just my gun.
All in all, I'm pleased with the one I have. It is well worth the money. In my opinion, this is an inexpensive gun, but not a cheap gun.
Desertscout1
New member
I have sold about 15 of the Bersa .380's in recent months and my ex had one a few years ago. I have seen each and every one of the ones that I sold fire around 100 rounds each because they were each sold to students of my CCW classes. Counting the rounds that I shot or saw shot out of my ex's gun, I have seen probably 2000 rounds fired through at least 15 different guns. I have yet to see the first malfunction. They are also incredibly accurate for what they are. At 7 yards, it's no trick at all to shoot nickle sized groups.
If all the Glocks disappeared from the face of the earth and I couldn't have one, my next choice for everyday carry would be the Bersa. I'm not a big .380 fan but, for every day carry, I AM a big fan of utter reliability and accuracy. The Bersa fits that bill very well.
If all the Glocks disappeared from the face of the earth and I couldn't have one, my next choice for everyday carry would be the Bersa. I'm not a big .380 fan but, for every day carry, I AM a big fan of utter reliability and accuracy. The Bersa fits that bill very well.
I think you'll find alot of people with Bersa's, and few with Walthers...
I HAD a bersa... good little gun. Eventually, I felt that if i was going to carry something that size, it was going to be bigger than .380. I sold it and got a glock. (Eventually sold that and wound up with .45 and 10mm, but thats a whole other thread).
If you want that size, its a GREAT gun.
For the same price, there's the kel-tec, and its smaller.
Its really just how important size is to you, and if you want something pocketable.
I HAD a bersa... good little gun. Eventually, I felt that if i was going to carry something that size, it was going to be bigger than .380. I sold it and got a glock. (Eventually sold that and wound up with .45 and 10mm, but thats a whole other thread).
If you want that size, its a GREAT gun.
For the same price, there's the kel-tec, and its smaller.
Its really just how important size is to you, and if you want something pocketable.
Desertscout1
New member
The Kel-Tec is not a bad gun but it is not nearly as dependable as the Bersa. It is not at all uncommon to see the Kel-Tec fail in some manner if it is fired much.
So basically the feedback I'm getting here is that Bersa makes one hellava gun. I really think that the thunder will be my next handgun.
So the Thunder wouldn't fit in a pocket? I'm a big guy (6'4" 275), what other guns in the price range (under $350) would you recomend for me as a CCW? I'd like to stay in the 9mm/.380 caliber, mainly for the ammo price since I'd want to put quite afew rounds though it for practice.
So the Thunder wouldn't fit in a pocket? I'm a big guy (6'4" 275), what other guns in the price range (under $350) would you recomend for me as a CCW? I'd like to stay in the 9mm/.380 caliber, mainly for the ammo price since I'd want to put quite afew rounds though it for practice.
I own and carry Both. The Bersa is slighty bigger than my Pre S&W, PPK/S .Iam 6'2" 330lb and can and do pocket carry both. The Bersa is a great gun for the money. The felt recoil is less than my PPK and the Pistol is also a little lighter. As much as I like my PPK/s I would say get the Bersa . Shoots every time and cost 1/2 as much. 
I use CorBon 90grHP for SD load.
Come visit us at bersatalk.com
I use CorBon 90grHP for SD load.Come visit us at bersatalk.com
As for me, I'm 6'3" and 205, sorta on the slim side. I can pocket carry my Bersa, but not in just any pocket. It will just fit in the back pocket of my jeans and will fit in khaki pockets, but you'll need a pocket holster to do that. It fits in the pockets of cargo pants just fine, but again is a bit large to do so without printing sans pocket holster. I'd suggest IWB.
BTW -- since they are all about the same size, you'd end up having to do that with a PPK, SIG 232 or a Makarov, it just goes along with pistols of that size factor.
BTW -- since they are all about the same size, you'd end up having to do that with a PPK, SIG 232 or a Makarov, it just goes along with pistols of that size factor.
"if you can afford a ppk then you can get a sig p232 and have a much better gun than either of the other 2 would be."
First, since you have no Bersa experience, you really can't back that up, at least not first hand. And likewise I can't back up any assertion that a Bersa is better than a PPK or a SIG, either, but then again I'm not going to try.
What I will do is point you to a Sig vs Bersa comparison article here, by Stephen Camp. I'll excerpt the conclusion:
And my impression of this is that either one will do the job. If you want to spend the extra bucks and get the SIG, go ahead. I've got other things to spend my money on.
BTW -- after shooting 200 rounds of bluntish FMJ ammo through my Bersa and about 50 rounds of bluntish JHP so far, I haven't noticed any dings on the feed ramp.
First, since you have no Bersa experience, you really can't back that up, at least not first hand. And likewise I can't back up any assertion that a Bersa is better than a PPK or a SIG, either, but then again I'm not going to try.
What I will do is point you to a Sig vs Bersa comparison article here, by Stephen Camp. I'll excerpt the conclusion:
"So which is best?
I suspect that as is the case with most things in life, you get what you pay for. The P230 does cost more and is probably the more precisely built of the two. That said, the Argentine pistol held its own against the more expensive pistol. Aluminum frame pistols are not usually intended as guns for folks firing a thousand rounds per month and most .380's never see that much shooting in a lifetime. I have no idea which would last longer if we just fired them until one broke. One might assume that the P230 would outlast the Bersa, but I'm not sure such is actually the case. The frames are very similar in size and construction. It might very well be that individual examples of one or the other might last longer. For most of us, this is a moot point as little pocket guns like these are not shot nearly so often as other handguns.
The lightweight Bersa Thunder does have one weak point compared to the P230 used in this test. When much blunt JHP ammo is used, I do see some scuffs and dings on the feed ramp. This Bersa's had well over 2 thousand rounds fired through it and quite a bit was blunt JHP such as the Corbon. If you have a Bersa Thunder and prefer a JHP that is blunt that you limit its use to testing for reliability or self-defense duty and use ball or JHP's with rounded ogives for the bulk of your shooting. I do not have near that many rounds through the P230, but no dings were noted on its feed ramp. I think a really good change that Bersa could make with their lightweight .380 Thunder pistols might be a one-piece steel feed ramp which would eliminate this concern entirely.
I do think the Bersa is an extremely good pistol for the money spent and one that will hold up fine for the vast majority of shooters. Again, I prefer the feel of this pistol to that of the SIG-Sauer, but others might feel just the opposite. I personally have no regrets in my experiences with the Bersa and recommend them. Both guns were reliable, but feeding on the Bersa did seem a bit "slicker" than on the SIG-Sauer. In other words there was no hesitation in chambering and it was actually difficult to tell that the slide was pushing a loaded round from the magazine into the chamber. It seemed like an empty gun!
The P230 has been replaced with the P232, essentially the same pistol with the most obvious external changes being in the grips and the slide serrations. It's my understanding that a few internal changes have been made as well. SIG-Sauer has a very good reputation in the shooting world. If you have the money and have concerns about reliability or durability of less well-known makers like Bersa, I suggest going with the German gun. There are no savings if you are constantly nagged with concerns about durability or quality. I personally believe that either will serve very, very well in the role most often called upon for the .380 ACP."
I suspect that as is the case with most things in life, you get what you pay for. The P230 does cost more and is probably the more precisely built of the two. That said, the Argentine pistol held its own against the more expensive pistol. Aluminum frame pistols are not usually intended as guns for folks firing a thousand rounds per month and most .380's never see that much shooting in a lifetime. I have no idea which would last longer if we just fired them until one broke. One might assume that the P230 would outlast the Bersa, but I'm not sure such is actually the case. The frames are very similar in size and construction. It might very well be that individual examples of one or the other might last longer. For most of us, this is a moot point as little pocket guns like these are not shot nearly so often as other handguns.
The lightweight Bersa Thunder does have one weak point compared to the P230 used in this test. When much blunt JHP ammo is used, I do see some scuffs and dings on the feed ramp. This Bersa's had well over 2 thousand rounds fired through it and quite a bit was blunt JHP such as the Corbon. If you have a Bersa Thunder and prefer a JHP that is blunt that you limit its use to testing for reliability or self-defense duty and use ball or JHP's with rounded ogives for the bulk of your shooting. I do not have near that many rounds through the P230, but no dings were noted on its feed ramp. I think a really good change that Bersa could make with their lightweight .380 Thunder pistols might be a one-piece steel feed ramp which would eliminate this concern entirely.
I do think the Bersa is an extremely good pistol for the money spent and one that will hold up fine for the vast majority of shooters. Again, I prefer the feel of this pistol to that of the SIG-Sauer, but others might feel just the opposite. I personally have no regrets in my experiences with the Bersa and recommend them. Both guns were reliable, but feeding on the Bersa did seem a bit "slicker" than on the SIG-Sauer. In other words there was no hesitation in chambering and it was actually difficult to tell that the slide was pushing a loaded round from the magazine into the chamber. It seemed like an empty gun!
The P230 has been replaced with the P232, essentially the same pistol with the most obvious external changes being in the grips and the slide serrations. It's my understanding that a few internal changes have been made as well. SIG-Sauer has a very good reputation in the shooting world. If you have the money and have concerns about reliability or durability of less well-known makers like Bersa, I suggest going with the German gun. There are no savings if you are constantly nagged with concerns about durability or quality. I personally believe that either will serve very, very well in the role most often called upon for the .380 ACP."
And my impression of this is that either one will do the job. If you want to spend the extra bucks and get the SIG, go ahead. I've got other things to spend my money on.
BTW -- after shooting 200 rounds of bluntish FMJ ammo through my Bersa and about 50 rounds of bluntish JHP so far, I haven't noticed any dings on the feed ramp.
The Body Bagger
New member
Hell I wasn't even looking for one, but you bastards talked me into it and I bought one yesterday.
S.E.R.T.SGT
New member
Be gentle, it's my fist time...
Ok, so after reading these posts for months I have finally broke down and decided to register. I feel, that overall, this is a great way to get information, and feel that there is a wealth of knowledge in these posts. Quick bio, I am a self admitted gunaholic. There is just something beautiful, to me, in a beatiful gun, almost like a work of art. (Ok kinda corny I know, but I love guns!) I have been in Law enforcement since 1992 (At the ripe ole age of 21 I joined a local dept.), and am currently on a tactical team with a local Sheriff Dept. here in GA. Besides firearms, I also enjoy teaching/training both law enforcement officers, as well as civilians, on the applicability of self defense/martial arts. Now, on to why I am writing this post. I have owned both the PPK as well as the Bersa thunder and thought both were excellent guns, for different reasons. I did have some feeding issues with the PPK, and wound up getting rid of it, due to that as well as the fact that it tended to "bite" the web of my hand while cycling/ejecting a round. The Bersa on the other hand, has had absolutely ZERO FTF, and for the price, I feel, is a great deal. If current guns are any indication, I'll let you know, I still own the Bersa!!! It is an excellent gun, with a great price. Just my two cents, and I look forward to getting more involved/postings. Thanks...
S.E.R.T.SGT
Ok, so after reading these posts for months I have finally broke down and decided to register. I feel, that overall, this is a great way to get information, and feel that there is a wealth of knowledge in these posts. Quick bio, I am a self admitted gunaholic. There is just something beautiful, to me, in a beatiful gun, almost like a work of art. (Ok kinda corny I know, but I love guns!) I have been in Law enforcement since 1992 (At the ripe ole age of 21 I joined a local dept.), and am currently on a tactical team with a local Sheriff Dept. here in GA. Besides firearms, I also enjoy teaching/training both law enforcement officers, as well as civilians, on the applicability of self defense/martial arts. Now, on to why I am writing this post. I have owned both the PPK as well as the Bersa thunder and thought both were excellent guns, for different reasons. I did have some feeding issues with the PPK, and wound up getting rid of it, due to that as well as the fact that it tended to "bite" the web of my hand while cycling/ejecting a round. The Bersa on the other hand, has had absolutely ZERO FTF, and for the price, I feel, is a great deal. If current guns are any indication, I'll let you know, I still own the Bersa!!! It is an excellent gun, with a great price. Just my two cents, and I look forward to getting more involved/postings. Thanks...
S.E.R.T.SGT
Springer45
New member
I avoided buying the Bersa for almost a year after hearing about it because I really couldn't think of a good excuse to get one. But at $200?? You gotta think pretty hard about excuses. Eventually the rave reviews EVERYWHERE were simply irresistible. I bought one last summer and have not regretted a MOMENT. It's almost too bad that such a good value is so remarkable.
Desertscout1
New member
Let me reiterate just a bit on what I said earlier. I'm a dealer and I can have pretty much what ever I want at a much cheaper price. I ordered a new 230 and sold it in short order. The woman brought it back 2-3 months later saying that it was a POS. I bought it back and sold it to another guy at a reduced price who brought it back less than a month later claiming that it was a POS. I got another guy a 232 who didn't come right and claim that it was a POS but he wasn't satified with it. He claimed about 8-10% failure rate.
Of the 15 or so Bersa's that I have sold, I have heard nothing but extreme praise. Men and women alike are totally taken with this little gun and simply love them. As far as I can tell, the Bersa has no downfalls. Again, it a totally dependable and very accurate little gun. And besides, so what if the 232 WAS a better gun (which in my opinion, it is not)? You can buy 2 Bersa's for the price of one Sig 232 and get a better gun
Of the 15 or so Bersa's that I have sold, I have heard nothing but extreme praise. Men and women alike are totally taken with this little gun and simply love them. As far as I can tell, the Bersa has no downfalls. Again, it a totally dependable and very accurate little gun. And besides, so what if the 232 WAS a better gun (which in my opinion, it is not)? You can buy 2 Bersa's for the price of one Sig 232 and get a better gun
S.E.R.T.SGT
New member
Sterno..
From what I remember on mine, I think +/- $225 range should get you there.
S.E.R.T.SGT
From what I remember on mine, I think +/- $225 range should get you there.
S.E.R.T.SGT
The Body Bagger
New member
I picked up the duo tone from Gander Mountain yesterday for $199.99.