Beginners Have No Clue!

[David]

I just purchased my HK 9mm compact after great research in newstand mags. Great gun!Bought it for pleasure & self defense.Then I stumble across you guys. I read all the facts from Firearms Tactical Institute. Being new to the sport I immediately got frustrated at the contridictions:
1- Firearm Tactical Institute state heavy weight HP bullets are the best. This contradicts newstand mags, Mike boyle, John Farnam, etc. who are sold on lite to medium weight HP bullets. Who's right? Why does Combat Handguns contend that 115 grain HP is the best seller?

2-The more I read, the more I get the feeling my 9mm is inadequate for self defense. I bought the HK 9mm in confidence that it had better control, especially with my wife, and acceptable stopping power. I love the gun, but was it a poor choice?

In buying my first gun, I was supprized at how little, consistant, information was available for the beginner. Now, I'm second-guessing my choices. Can you steer me, and others like me, in a confident direction?

David

 

[cornered rat]

IMO, HK compact is a perfectly adequate defense choice. 9mm is lethal enough when aimed right. It is also available and inexpensive. A .45 or .44 may be better, but would it be better enough to make the jump now? I would learn your current tool first, then consider adding to it.

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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos

 

[lowrider]

David-you can ask 20 different people and you will get 20 different answers about best handguns, ammo, etc. Best I can tell you is listen to all the advise, and go with what makes the most sense to you. As far as the HK, it is an excellent choice. Very reliable, accurate, and durable.
As far as ammo, shoot what you are comfortable with. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44 mag. Shot placement is the key. If you are practicing alot with the 9mm, you will be fine. You made a fine choice.
By the way, the gun mags are going to recommend what product is giving them the most advertising dollars, so take it all with a grain of salt. Best of luck..

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, David. I own .44 Specials, .357 Magnums, scads of .45acps, and many 9mm pistols. I most often rely on a 9mm for home defense handgun needs. Shot per shot it may not be "as good" as some other rounds, but I don't believe it's a "weak sister," either.
As has been noted, placement's the key, but that can be difficult in a life vs. death shooting situation. I think it's more prudent to pick the very best load you can in whatever caliber you have and go forward. I wouldn't go below .38 Spec or .380acp for personal defense. In a standard pressure load, I really think that Federal Nyclad 124 gr HP or Federal's 115 gr JHP are fine choices. I personally like the light, fast stuff, so I use either Triton or Cor*Bon 115 gr +P JHPs. Several years ago, I was hunting whitetail deer in Texas. To make a long story short and relate it to 9mm effectiveness and placement, I killed 3 deer with one shot each from a 9mm Browning HP. The load was not quite as "hot" as Cor*Bon, but also used a Sierra bullet, the older "hollow cavity", rather than the "PowerJacket
Hollow Point" they market today. Shot placement was just behind the shoulder on each animal and each animal fell in it's tracks. All three kicked around a bit and one tried to get back up, but before he got another does, he went back down and died. The farthest shot was only around 30 - 35 yards with two being only about 15 yards and none of the deer were afraind. I am not saying the nine's a hunting round; I am saying that with the "right" bullets and placement, the nine will see you through.

Best.

 

[BMC]

DO NOT THROW YOUR HK COMPACT AWAY! You'll be sorry! Trust me, 9mm's do the job with the right bullet in the right spot. Heck if you could jab someone with a knife in the right way it could kill someone. So why not a 9x19mm lead slug travelling hundreds of miles faster than any knife can be used? Good bullet like Cor*Bon and Federal are nice choices.
If you still don't believe me then please post your HK Compact in the buy and sell section of this web page and I am sure to scoop it up. GO AHEAD I DARE YOU! I DOUBLE DARE YOU.
P.S. Commendations to you for thinkig about your wife as well when purchasing a gun for the house. Some married guys I know just get the gun they feel looks good on them. Chauvinist pigs.

 

[Puddle Pirate]

The 9mm Luger is fine, as long as you hit what you're aiming at. I'm not familiar enough with 9mm ammo to judge which round is most effective, but you should pick one that you can afford to practice with. If you practice exclusivly with hardball (Full Metal Jacket) but use holow point for carry your accuracy may suffer, and your gun may have feed problems with some ammo. It's best to find that out at the range.

 

[slabsides]

I believe in the biggest, heaviest bullet and the highest velocity possible for defense. I want to poke a BIG hole clear through what I am shooting at. However, as Harry Callahan said: "A man's gotta know his limitations." If you can bear the burden of an N-frame .44 or a Desert Eagle .50 and HIT with it, that's fine. Many people, myself included, choose the 9mm for concealed carry, because it is good enough to do the job, in a package that one can stand to carry. At home, I would tend to reach for the rifle or shotgun to answer lethal threats, but I have a long .45 tucked in the nightstand, too. Your choice of a 9mm is sound. Learn your piece, and don't worry about what the low-down boughten gun-rag writers say. slabsides

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For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

 

[Rod WMG]

David,

The sad fact is that there is no way for a rank beginner to know what he likes unless he has a lot of friends with a lot of guns which they will let him shoot and evaluate the performance of.

It's like the time I got started in photography. I had no clue about my needs and what level of interest I would ultimately have in this field. I bought an $800 camera when I should have bought the $2,000 one. I also bought some wrong lenses. I know exactly what I need and want now, but I can't afford it all.

Others have given you the straight scoop about placement. Handguns are very weak weapons, comparatively speaking, but gunfights have been won with very small handgun calibers against superior firepower. The 9mm is no slouch with good loads.

Practice. Have confidence in your placement and your ability to act under great duress. And don't believe everything you read (even from me!); everyone has his opinion on these things and we can't all be right.

Best wishes to you in finding the ideal gun/caliber.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Many top level instructors carry
9mms. Quality gun and round - good
training and you will be fine.

 

[CMOS]

David, for a "beginner" you made a darn good choice. Don't second guess your decision for second. The 9mm is a very capable round and well, that HK USP-9C, what more need be said?!

I have a few 9mm handguns myself, including an HK USP-9C just like yours. I will never part with it. Some of the comments above are very wise, it's not as much the caliber, it's placement. If anyone tells you that a 9mm is an ineffective defense round, walk away. They are full of hot air.

I "carry" my USP with a "dutch load" - 2 Corbon HP's then 2 124grn FMJ's - then repeat until the mag is full. I do this because I always shoot double-taps and it gives me a good combination of ammunition for "expansion" and "penetration". The first 2 rounds out of the barrel will be the HP's. If they are ineffective, for whatever reason, the next 2 are FMJ's for greater penetration.

lowrider spoke well, there are many opinions on calibers and ammunition. This is mine. I think you did really well.

Enjoy the USP.

CMOS

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Join GOA, NRA, LEAA and vote.

 

[Will Beararms]

David:

In the scheme of things, a handgun is a stop gap measure at best. It is no substitute for a self defense shot gun, M 14 or AR 15.

You have made an excellent decision------stay with it and ignore the paid endorsements of the gun rags. Find yourself a mentor, a retired LEO or former memeber of an elite military unit that offers training. Ignore the adivce of wannabe's, honorary police officers masquerading as experts in gun magazines and aggressive salespeople at gun shops. I have been fortunate to run across a retired DEA Agent and a fromer Green Beret who helped my mastery of the handgun significantly. Good luck!!!

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."

 

[RWK]

David,

Welcome to the perpetual TFL debate re "big/slow versus small/fast" handguns. At least monthly, there is one or more lengthy threads related to this area.

Once again, I agree with Mr. Camp. As he suggested, ACCURATE PLACEMENT is the key to defense. If you develop precision with a 9mm -- perhaps due to the fact that target ammunition is relatively inexpensive and, therefore, you practice more -- you're much better off than with a 10mm, .40 S&W or .45 ACP with which you haven't become accurate.

It may also be worthwhile to remember that the diameters of the .38 Special, the 9mm, the .357 magnum, and the .357 Sig are all essentially equal (about .36 inch).

 

[JERKY]

David,

You are not the only beginner here. Ive been around guns all my life. My father espically with his small arsenal.He has owned gun shops and been a great mentor. I still consider myself a beginner because i have only recently started to buy hanguns for myself. Even with all of his expertise I get diffrent opinions every day of the best caliber for self defense. I have chosen the .40S&W to be the right defense weapon. How did i come up with that u ask ? Well it wasnt easy but i believe the 40 cal is the best simply because of 2 factors.

1) It is not too big. I think the .45 is great but too big to carry and too expensive to practice with.

2) the 9mm is small. Great capacity on most models and proven leathal. also cheap to practice with. But i feel better with the larger .40

I like the bigger of the two. Simply choice. If you are comfy with your 9, more power to ya. theres still plenty of law enforcement agencies that use the 9mm. If all these people trust it, it must be worthwhile.

P.S The H&K Is no slouch. Its a great piece that anyone here would carry or use for home defense or fun. If i were you i would feel great about my choice in the investment. Fell confident that you did your homework before buying. I did'nt with my first gun and i hated it. Since then i have done my homework on everything i buy.

Have Fun !

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TIM : )

 

[12-34hom]

The cemeteries are chocked full of people shot with 9mm, just ask anyone of them if it was adaquate.........

 

[ghostsix]

Despite the millions of G.I.`s,the 1911 is an experts piece.I`m glad that civilians,including cops,don`t wear them.

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[James Montes]

I am neither a fan of the HK USP nor the 9MM; yet there is nothing wrong with your selection!

As far as the HEAVY/FAST dilemma you are questioning...

It is my understanding that bigger rounds like the .45 retain more energy, yet most are subsonic (slower than the speed of sound) in nature. Hypothetically this makes for an excellent self-defense cartridge because it probably will not over penatrate a two-legged target! So heavier is in a sense, BETTER...

The 9MM is generally a hypersonic (faster than the speed of sound) cartridge. Again, a heavier grained bullet will retain more energy. So, A heavier (i.e.147gr 9mm) though very deadly will more than likely slip through a two-legged target like butter!
So lighter is good because it will not retain as much energy as the heavier loads!

The "standard" military uses 115gr. 9mm FMJs instead of heavier grained 9mm's and I can assure you that the 9mm though an "intermediate" caliber cartridge is very much a killer!

Is it my first choice? No! Is it a bad choice? No!

As others have stated...

It is not just the caliber of the weapon, there are MANY other factors!

More people are killed in AMERICA with "weak" cartridges like the .22, .25, &.32s than by hard hitters like .357s or .45s!

P.S. Keep your 9mm and explore other weapons as well, .40s, .45s, .357s all are FUN to shoot! Don't look at all the selections, and opinions as a bad thing! It is what makes our "HOBBY" so interesting and yes, FUN!!!

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SURE SHOT

 

[stdalire]

David: Many writers seems expert in ballistic, gun specs and gun handling. Like what the rest have said, don't just easily be dismayed nor being flattered or believed with the many kinds of comments as we all differ in experiences in gun handling.

What I observed with some people, they tried to justify the good things about their own possession (gun), despite of some shortcomings of it. By any language, of course bigger caliber is better defensive weapon if we can handle. The lower caliber also is fine if we can effectively use it. Many people who are not famous but very good in gun handling or fast drawer, as they know very well their own piece.

Be contented of what you have now and practice very well. When you feel insatiable to your 9mm then buy a higher caliber when you think your 9mm cannot satisfy your improving marksmanship. Until you appreciate the importance of having different calibers.

Just like me, when I cannot afford a brand new pistol, I am just contented with my .22 and .38 revolver colt, and I shoot well of it. In my province, a mango tree has been riddled with bullets as it is the only target object I had. Universal target or popper targets is not the trend but a tree or bottles of beer would be enough.

When I was able to afford to buy $1000 bucks pistols, I bought 2 pcs aside of the unlicensed one. The only reason I bought a .45 is to be at par with my co Gun Club members, as show of in the range and it is because it is a standard target pistol thereon. Also, I feel that I need to own also the famous 1911 model.

I saw many famous people from military even uses .22 magnum caliber as self defense carry weapon.

Don't feel bad with your 9MM HK, I have also one more inferior than you have like my DP51, and others have too with lower make than you have now.

I wish, my own story can boost your morale in having your 9mm. You did not make a wrong choice.

Thanks



[This message has been edited by stdalire (edited November 07, 1999).]

 

[4V50 Gary]

The bozo in Hawaii who killed 7 proved that the 9mm does work. So did the clown in 101 California Street (San Francisco).

Shot placement, not caliber or bullet design is everything. You do your job in putting that bullet in the right place, and the bullet will do its job.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

 

[NuclearGlock]

My advice is to stop reading the gun rags. They are for entertainment only.
Outside of the U.S. the 9mm rules. It has been a proven combat cartridge for a century.
Pick a good reliable pistol (you have) in a proven chambering (you have) and become proficient with it (you will).
The 9mm, .357sig, .40sw, 10mm, .45acp will all do the job if placed well. Neither will do the job if not delivered into either a major blood bearing organ or the central nervous system.
The marginal differences between "stopping power", etc. are esoteric and useful only for selling magazines.
Ask yourself, "would the GSG9, SAS, and other special operations organizations throughout the world choose the 9mm if it did not work?"

 

[RWK]

Mr. Montes,

With respect - and not to be a "nit picker" - you have misused a term. "Hypersonic" mean 6.00 Mach or greater, while "supersonic" means 1.00 to 5.99 Mach. Accordingly, I believe you meant to use the term supersonic.