barne's bullets, heavy copper fouling

[SHR970]

Yeah, but an irritant is much better than poison.....

Quit while you are still behind.... you most likely don't know squat about what the exposure limits are vs. TWA vs. IDLH.

Don't even try me..... they wouldn't even be allowed to market for the last 40 years on the consumer market if it was likely to be a long term hazard without warnings about the PPE necessary for safe use.

FWIW.... Cyanide soultions can be Acute OR Chronic poisons. Irritants can ALSO be Chronic Poisons. Your answer points to a lack of knowledge of the subject.

 

[Shadow9mm]

SHR970

Hey I'm always willing to lean. Why is a poison better than an irritant?

Bore tech msds lists https://www.shootingequipment.de/out/media/cu2_copper_remover_security_data.pdf
Skin Irrit. 3; H316 Causes mild skin irritation. (Not Adopted by US OSHA)
Eye Irrit. 2B; H320 Causes eye irritation.

KG12 MSDS lists https://www.sinclairintl.com/userdocs/MSDS/665-000-009_KG12%20BIG%20BORE%20CLEANER,%204%20OZ.%20-%20665_default.pdf
H301 Toxic if swallowed.
H311 Toxic in contact with skin.
H373 May cause damage to organs through prolonged or repeated exposure

What am I missing? After after finding out about the Hornady 1 shot aerosol case lube side effects I try and read the MSDS sheets before I buy products. But as an average joe that's about the best I can do.

 

[SHR970]

Shadow9mm said Hey I'm always willing to lean. Why is an irritant at less than better than a poison.

Quit while you are still behind.... you most likely don't know squat about what the exposure limits are vs. TWA vs. IDLH.

You just proved my point; you know buzz words and not what the words actually mean. In my job there is a reason that I wear glasses and NOT contact lenses...especially soft / permeable contact lenses.

 

[Shadow9mm]

You just proved my point; you know buzz words and not what the words actually mean. In my job there is a reason that I wear glasses and NOT contact lenses...especially soft / permeable contact lenses.

And I get to educate myself again, could at least point me in the right direction. Lack of knowledge is not a bad thing, that can generally easily be fixed. Just cause you deal with chemicals on a daily basis in your job does not mean everyone else does.

I understand what TWA and ILDA are after a bit of reading, along with STEL, PEL, and WEEL. Now where do I find those stats in the MSDS, cause I read through both and did not see it listed for either.

 

[SHR970]

You don't find them in the MSDS / SDS / GHS. You find them in nationally authoritative sources such as NIOSH, Hawleys Chemical Dictionary, Hazop, et. al. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Shadow9mm]

You don't find them in the MSDS / SDS / GHS. You find them in nationally authoritative sources such as NIOSH, Hawleys Chemical Dictionary, Hazop, et. al. Thank you for proving my point.

Thanks for at least point me in the right directions this time. Off to do more reading. You doing ok? You seem kinda grumpy today...

 

[Shadow9mm]

After bit of digging

bore tech
no limitations placed on either, unless I missed something.
2-Aminoethylphosphonic Acid
Diethylene glycol monobutyl ether

KG-2
Cyanide

The Occupational Safety &
Health Administration
(OSHA) set the PEL for
cyanide exposures in the
workplace at 11mg/m3
calculated as an 8-hour timeweighted average.
The National Institute for
Occupational Safety and
Health (NIOSH) set a STEL
for cyanide exposures in the
workplace at 5mg/m3
calculated as a 15-min timeweighted average.

the 5mg/m3 is what is listed in the MSDS. So if I am reading this correctly you should be ok if directly exposed to it for 15min or less and it should be moot given proper PPE.

 

[SHR970]

Yeah you missed a few things but that is why the commercially available admix is usually allowed as the cross contamination with other type compounds is generally unlikely to produce a serious acute reaction.

Both compounds in question are chelating solutions. You can also use EDTA....a compound used Medically and in products such as Shampoo. But too much EDTA is bad JuJu. The difference between a useful compound and a poison is DOSE!. Even DiHydrous MonOxide can be a poison to a human without being fully imersed in it even though a huamn needs it to survive.

 

[Shadow9mm]

Yeah you missed a few things but that is why the commercially available admix is usually allowed as the cross contamination with other type compounds is generally unlikely to produce a serious acute reaction.

Both compounds in question are chelating solutions. You can also use EDTA....a compound used Medically and in products such as Shampoo. But too much EDTA is bad JuJu. The difference between a useful compound and a poison is DOSE!. Even DiHydrous MonOxide can be a poison to a human without being fully imersed in it even though a huamn needs it to survive.

What I don't understand is why in the blazes this stuff is so complicated to track down. Why are the permissible exposure limits included in the MSDS?

is that the same EDTA that is "to preserve taste" in many foods and beverages.

True enough, you can have too much water or for that matter salt, oxygen or a number of other things for it to become fatal. Many of those things are permissible or even necessary to survive.

 

[Unclenick]

Yes, it is the same EDTA. As a chelating agent, it binds metal ions in a sort of molecular pincer (the word chelate comes from the Ancient Greek word for claw). In processed food, tiny amounts of free metal ions from equipment used in harvesting and processing can catalyze oxidation that affects food color and taste. A catalyst like that can repeat its work over and over, so it can affect the whole food mass over time, even though it doesn't have a significant presence from the standpoint of human consumption. So using EDTA to grab the metal ions and render their catalytic behavior inoperative stops that oxidative deterioration.