At what point is the rifle itself not accurate?

A couple of quick thoughts. One is the bipod. Getting really tight groups with a bipod takes skill. Many sporting rifles with whippy stocks do best with the front bag under the magazine floor plate. Your stock shouldn't be like that, but it's worth a try. Read Bugholes from Bipod for technique hints.

The second is, when I have a barrel that just doesn't shoot, I try recrowning it. I saw an article by a couple of fellows who bought Dave Manson's crowning tools and wound up doing crowns for $15 for a dozen or so club members to help pay for it. They said about half the rifles shot tighter groups afterward, while the other half stayed the same. Small crown errors are common. It's easy to address, so it's worth doing it. The fancy tools are nice, but you can also just lap one in.

That link is to my write-up, for which I made a lap from a ball bearing. But M. L. McPherson just squares his muzzle with a file and square, then uses a marble as the lap. I'm less sanguine about the reliable precision of using bolt heads and variable speed drills, but many have had success that way. The method I describe takes less than 10 minutes after any squaring you might choose to do, so I don't see a reason for the power tools.

Per McPherson, what I've seen photos of is him shortening a barrel, so he has a hacksaw, the file, the square and the marble and lapping compound with him at the range. He is then tuning the rifle to the ammo, rather than the other way around. Read the Secrets of the Houston Warehouse. You may decide to try trimming your barrel to 21¾", the magic number from those experiments, IIRC (but read the article to verify that, as it's been awhile since I have). That trimming presents you with the opportunity to recrown at the same time.

Finally, I would be sure to have a systematic approach to finding loads. If you can access a 300 yard range and have a good spotting scope, the old Auddette ladder may serve you pretty well. These days I use Dan Newberry's method most of the time, because it works at 100 yards, where an Auddette ladder need more range to let you clearly identify vertical dispersion. If you shoot one of Newberry's OCW round robins, record which shot is which one on every target. Last year a member did that with a rifle he could not make shoot, and by noting that the first shots on each target were almost always highest and most left, and the last shot was almost always lowest and most right, we figured out heat walking was occurring in the barrel, messing up what would otherwise be good groups. At that point, replacing the barrel is probably best. You could also try cryo-treating.

Regarding group sizes, try overlaying groups as Bart suggested. Figure a single 5 shot group tells you 95% of future five shot groups will fall within about +50% and -33% of the size of that one group, as shown in the chart below as dotted blue lines, and that 5% of groups will fall outside those limits. As soon as you collect several groups and overlap them, you have a group with the sum of all those shots, and that shot number applies and the limits get much narrower. The reason this happens is that as you increase the number of shots in a group, you offer more opportunities for outliers to appear, if they are going to. If they don't, your confidence increases that they won't show up often, and that narrows the likely limits of the group size.

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Bart B.

New member
Last year a member did that with a rifle he could not make shoot, and by noting that the first shots on each target were almost always highest and most left, and the last shot was almost always lowest and most right, we figured out heat walking was occurring in the barrel, messing up what would otherwise be good groups. At that point, replacing the barrel is probably best. You could also try cryo-treating.
I'd get the receiver face squared up with the barrel tenon/chamber axis. The barrel's tenon shoulder may have to be cut back a couple thousandths then a shim of the right thickness put between it and the faced receiver so the barrel would clock in right to get the original headspace (and sights, if on the barrel) returned to the original place. Then subsequent barrels should no longer walk shot impact as they heat up.
 
That's a good idea. If it's not caused by asymmetrical stress in the barrel itself, asymmetrical thread tension is the most likely source of walking during heating.

Also, in my post I had meant to second your suggestion that a sling position be tried. I've got a couple of rifles that group best when fired from slinged-up prone, my accurized Garand, included.
 

rightside

New member
You say your full length sizing on your brass. Have you tried just neck sizing? I'm not a big time reloader (just shootin' ammo to save money, mostly) but I've read some guys say it improves accuracy, at least on the rifle the brass was originally fired in.
 

Bart B.

New member
rightside, proper use of full length sizing dies has made the most accurate ammo for decades. They're used to make all that super accurate commercial match ammo's cases. The benchrest discipline finally switched from neck only to full length dies a few years ago. The FL dies align case necks more precisely on case shoulders because the case body and shoulder are held in alignment by that of the die. They realized that while their smallest groups stayed the same size, the biggest ones (which happens just as often) were a lot smaller.

However, improper setup and/or use of full length sizing dies will make less accurate ammo than neck only sizing does.
 

rightside

New member
Ok, Bart,
Like I said there are more people out there than I that have much more experience. Thanks for the correction.
 

44 AMP

Staff
I just want to point out that information/discussion about what can be done to a rifle / ammo to make it more accurate, while interesting, isn't what the OP asked.

At what point you decide that the rifle is not accurate, and something major needs be done (up to replacing the entire rifle)? This is going to be as individual an answer as there are uses for the rifle.

Minute of deer at 40 yards is one standard, minute of varmint at 400 quite a different one.

I consider it a simple answer, if you can hit your intended target, at/close to the point of aim, no matter the distance, the rifle/ammo, and you are accurate. If you cannot, then its not, for you.
 
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