At Long Last - A trip to the range with my Ruger LCP

[dgludwig]

I read the manuals for all of my weapons cover-to-cover. I may have missed the no +P bit, but I am generally thorough with my weapons.

I don't know how old your Ruger is but the earlier LCP manuals did not have any admonitions about using +P ammunition. Subsequent and current LCP manuals do warn against the use of same.

 

[LockedBreech]

Dgludwig, I wish I could blame the manual but I went back and found the no +p indication later. Was just excited to shoot and got careless, skimmed the manual.

 

[dgludwig]

And, since you didn't take me up on my face-saving out , to rub a little salt in the wound, as I recall, the warning was printed in RED!

 

[LockedBreech]

Hahaha, do not think I did not appreciate it, sir, I just prefer my embarrassment to be as scathing as possible so I am less likely to act the fool in the future

 

[Cheapshooter]

T

heir is no such thing as +P in 380 SAAMI sets the standards for the firearm and ammo industry and they have never set any standards for 380.

I am sure the people at Ruger are familiar with this. I am also sure they have a reason for printing it in red ink in the owners manual. Possibly rather than singling out by name the brands that claim to be +P they thought it would be easier to just warn against using it in general.

This is a quote from Ruger's own website under FAQ:

Can I use +P ammunition in my Ruger LCP?
No. The Ruger LCP was not designed for use with +P ammunition. Given the LCP's light weight and compact design, the use of +P ammunition in this particular model may result in damage to the firearm or personal injury.

If you think you are smarter than Ruger's engineers, then use it if you must!

 

[Cheapshooter]

And the answer to my question direct to Ruger:

Thank you for using the Ruger On-Line Customer Support Request Form.

This e-mail is in response to your question or comment of 06/15/2010
Request No: 64824

Comment / question:

Much is being said on various firearms websites about the use of +P ammunition in the LCP. Most who insist that it is OK site the fact that there is no SAAMI standards for 380 +P, so they claim it is just advertising hype, and would be perfectly OK in the LCP in spite of your warning. The most mentioned ammo is Buffalo Bore which claims to be +P. In arguing the point that it should not be used, I would like to know if it is just a legal issue to not mention a certain brand.

Response:
No, The Ruger LCP was not designed for use with +P ammunition. Given the LCP’s lightweight and compact design, the use of +P ammunition in this particular model may result damage to the firearm or personal injury.
Buffalo bore is a +P ammunition, and is not recommended for the LCP.

What I said before!!! You can't fix stupid!!!

 

[LockedBreech]

Cheapshooter, I do appreciate you asking Ruger, but if you read the thread I have already accepted that it was my bad, not Ruger's. I am still new-ish to guns and make some stupid mistakes, but I do not consider myself "stupid" as it were.

I wonder how stout a .380 need be for +p. For instance, a Beretta Cheetah is probably fine, but is, say, a Walther PPK?

 

[Cheapshooter]

L.S. please take no offense My posts about the +P in the LCP, and the answer I received from Ruger are directed a a few that think they know better than the Ruger engineers. There are comments about no such thing as +P 380, and it's OK to use anything in an LCP on numerous posts. I just hope that people don't believe the "gotta use the most powerful ammo" cult, and ruin their gun or worse get them selves or others hurt.

 

[JohnKSa]

There are comments about no such thing as +P 380...

Well, there is and there isn't.

There are definitely ammunition companies (or at least one that I'm aware of) marketing ammunition that is marked .380ACP +P, so in that sense it does exist.

However, there is no industry standard for .380ACP +P like there is for 9mm +P, .38spl +P or .45ACP +P. The designation is not attached to any existing definition, specification or standard. So from that perspective, .380ACP +P doesn't exist.

No one is questioning that there is ammunition so marked, the comments are pointing out that the markings refer to a standard that doesn't exist.

 

[Laserlips]

JMOfartO:

I've always "heard" there is no industry standard in the 380cal. round for +P.. But, as someone else stated there ARE some ammo company's out there who ARE marking their particular round as +P.

I think it's human nature for us "gun nuts" to want the absolute best "man/woman/mixed group of thugs" stopper we can carry in our self defense firearms but the truth is when using a mousegun, such as our LCP, "it is what it is", and what it "is" is a very small, very light small caliber firearm..

IF the parent company, in this case Ruger, makes a big deal out not shooting +P ammo in the LCP I should think it wise to pay them attention. I'm thinking Ruger is fully aware there is no standard for +P's in the 380 round, but equally aware of the advertising hype that sells and adding a +P connotation to a specific round might enhance sales in that caliber.

There are many fine LARGER, HEAVIER 380cal. pistols that probably will accept "+P" marked ammo without any potential damage to those pistols, but sadly our LCP is not in that group. But we were warned about that before buying...

I'm sure the old Sigs in 380cal., Walther PPK, and others plus I had a Browning BDA years ago that I'm sure wouldn't fall apart from shooting what is called "+P" ammo in it.

My question is...

IF you shoot a round in your LCP that is sold and marked as "+P", whether there is even a standard for that rating or not, and your LCP develops problems from the extra stress put on the weapon by the overpowered round would you expect RUGER to fix or replace it under warranty?

I'm of the opinion that using a quality self defense, approved round, will getcha' about as much "protection" as will the special "+P" rounds that are advertised to be so effective as man stoppers..

Not germane to the question of using "+P" in the LCP, but something to consider. What if you shoot someone defending yourself, and you wind up in court because of it and a shyster lawyer for the "deceased" choirboy you had to shoot brings up the fact that you were using a SPECIAL round designated as "P", or a "man stopper", or "man KILLER" rather than a standard round?

In fact a round that was FORBIDDEN by the factory for use in your firearm...

I know this sounds like a stretch, but I'm telling you, once you get into the legal system under such conditions NOTHING is guaranteed... That "+P" business could be the difference between acquittal or being found legally at fault..

Even if you found innocent in a criminal situation you are still open to further legal action in CIVIL court, and again using a "deadly, overpowered round", FORBIDDEN even by the firearms manufacturer of your pistol could come back to bite you in the butt.

I apologize for rambling, I'm not a lawyer, (didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)..

I just think it prudent, FOR ME, to use approved rounds in my self defense firearms.

No offense intended to anyone, and contrary opinions welcomed and cheerfully forgotten immediately by short term memory loss due to advancing senility..

Best Wishes,

Jesse

 

[Cheapshooter]

I apologize for rambling, I'm not a lawyer, (didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night)..

I just think it prudent, FOR ME, to use approved rounds in my self defense firearms.

Not rambling at all!! Everything I have been trying to say, and put in a very intelligent way.

Not germane to the question of using "+P" in the LCP, but something to consider. What if you shoot someone defending yourself, and you wind up in court because of it and a shyster lawyer for the "deceased" choirboy you had to shoot brings up the fact that you were using a SPECIAL round designated as "P", or a "man stopper", or "man KILLER" rather than a standard round?

The exact reason I do not carry Winchester Ranger, or any other LE only ammo in my XD40.