Army Agrees To M4 Sand Test Shoot-Off

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Fat White Boy

New member
Interesting. A desert shoot-off in Maryland? No matter how big a sandbox they build, how are they going to get rid of the humidity?
 
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Crosshair

New member
It would be cool if they threw the Mini-14 into the mix. It may not win as most accurate, but reliability is that Mini's middle name. It would sure solve the debate between the Mini-and AR on that aspect.

Mabee a SU-16 as well.
 
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ArachnoSoldier

New member
ah haha

That was really funny... "to provide the best weapons to the soldiers" Ha ha ha. You damn near knocked me out of my chair with laughter.
 
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oldbillthundercheif

Moderator
The Army was elbowed into this thing sideways by a politician. HK and FN better watch out. The last time the Army felt like they were having a new rifle imposed on them they skewed the testing and dragged their heels all along the way.
 
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garryc

New member
This will be a B. S. test. How will they accurately simulate the talcum like dust in Iraq? Why not test the darn thing in Iraq? Why not just take the word of the average combat soldier? Take them to Iraq and run them side by side in the conditions they will be used in. You of course would not put an un-tested weapon in combat, but we have sufficient secure areas to test in the actual environment.
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
So they're also going to test, side by side, a:

1. current-issue M4
2. new US-made gas piston upper from Bushmaster and others
3. SIG rifle, which could be made in Exeter, NH, USA
4. Robinson XCR, made in Salt Lake City, UT, USA

Right? Right? I mean, comparison, right? And at least tests of stuff made in the US, not just H&K?

Even throw an Arsenal SLR-106 (5.56 NATO AK) in there as a control group.

No? :)
 
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Crosshair

New member
nemoaz

No military ever will adopt the fragile Mini14 as a military weapon.

What exactly is fragile about the Mini-14? (Aside from the POS aftermarket magazines.) It's not like the AR doesn't have it's share of fragile parts.
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
What exactly is fragile about the Mini-14? (Aside from the POS aftermarket magazines.) It's not like the AR doesn't have it's share of fragile parts.
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It was an attempt at a civilian utility gun with a weak, thin barrel that literally changes shape from the heating caused by a few rapid-fire shots, making it horribly inaccurate.

While based on an M14 in overall looks, it's got about as much in common with it as a Crossman M1 Carbine BB gun does to a real M1 Carbine.

It's a now-dated and overpriced-for-what-it-is civilian item, and if they ever tried to have one go select-fire, it'd likely shoot so inaccurately it'd endanger people behind you. :rolleyes:
 
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Crosshair

New member
It was an attempt at a civilian utility gun with a weak, thin barrel that literally changes shape from the heating caused by a few rapid-fire shots, making it horribly inaccurate.
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If 2" groups are "inaccurate" then yes the Mini does that, the new mini is slightly better. An M-16/M4 needs to shoot 4" groups to be accepted by the military. Many do better, but it's not like the Military is that picky. If you want a bench rifle, then go ahead and put on a 1" bull barrel that makes the rifle weigh 12 pounds unloaded. The Mini was designed to be lightweight firepower yet reasonable accurate. The Mini does that quite well. It was not designed to be a benchrest gun.

if they ever tried to have one go select-fire, it'd likely shoot so inaccurately it'd endanger people behind you.
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Um, they did make a select-fire Mini-14, it's called the ACC-556 nad it worked quite well. Have you ever fired a Mini at ALL? My friend owns a Mini-30 and he is good with open sights out to 200 yards shooting offhand. I would hardly want to be in the sights of someone with a Mini.
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
Have you ever fired a Mini at ALL?
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Yup!

It's why I bought a Saiga instead. Didn't see a reason to pay $500 for something that felt so...wal-mart-ish, when the Saiga was only $250 and shot better. :)

My friend owns a Mini-30 and he is good with open sights out to 200 yards shooting offhand.
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Have him do half a dozen rapid shots, then try to get a group, instead of what looks like a shotgun pattern.
 
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HorseSoldier

New member
Um, they did make a select-fire Mini-14, it's called the ACC-556 nad it worked quite well. Have you ever fired a Mini at ALL? My friend owns a Mini-30 and he is good with open sights out to 200 yards shooting offhand. I would hardly want to be in the sights of someone with a Mini.
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If it was good enough for the A Team and the Bermuda Defense Regiment it's . . . oh nevermind ;)

More realistically, I just don't see the open Mini-14 action as likely to prove itself overly dust resistant. The information from the sand box is that their M14 relatives are not holding up well at all in that environment, reliability wise, so I doubt the Mini-14 would do any better.
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
Not having been over there, I certainly can't say, but I was told by someone in the military who was returning that the way to get the Iraq experience with your weapon was to take a large bottle of talcum powder, dump it over and in your rifle, and then try to fire it / clean it, etc.

Oh, and...
If it was good enough for the A Team
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They never hit anything, did they? :D
 
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STLRN

New member
It will turn out just like the Dragon Skin Testing.
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Do you mean the manufacturers of the supposed better system will launch a massive media campaign and than go cry to the Congress when their system doesn't meet acceptance requirements?
 
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