I prefer an old school small flask with a measuring spout. I'm with Hawg Pyrodex or holy Black. I like the pellets for my 209 ignition rifle. Convenience rules in the field. OP sounds to me like you have balls large for bore size. Can you measure the cylinder bores? A pair of 20 dollar calipers is all you need. I once received a Pietta .44 with 3 different sizes of cylinder bore out of the six. I still have the replacement that was provided, Traditions did make it right, on my nickel for freight. It was not easy to get them to even have a look at it. They relented when I told them what the measurements of the cylinders were. Bad enough only 3 of the 6 would shave a ring of lead from the same box of Speer balls. Loose is especially bad, the balls can come off the powder under recoil.
Armi Sanpaola 44 New Model Army
- Thread starter RC20
- Start date
Hawg: New to me and no need to go to pellets if they are not a good answer. I was interested as I was not sure what I had wound up with powder wise. Learning a lot.
Ricklin: I am not getting shaved lead but the balls are very tight. Bores are .442 to .446.
The balls all are tight, you can feel a bit of difference in seating. I am going by what I felt was a very good video on chain fire by InRange. He went pretty loose to get one (I don't want to get close of course).
I will probably go down this coming week and shoot some more. I can take tools and cleaning solvent (the CK2K) and shoot a bit more.
So far the biggest issue has been the timing for the half cock but can work around that, I have not seen an animated presentation on that. I am gathering that its involved with the bolt and the two arms.
Ricklin: I am not getting shaved lead but the balls are very tight. Bores are .442 to .446.
The balls all are tight, you can feel a bit of difference in seating. I am going by what I felt was a very good video on chain fire by InRange. He went pretty loose to get one (I don't want to get close of course).
I will probably go down this coming week and shoot some more. I can take tools and cleaning solvent (the CK2K) and shoot a bit more.
So far the biggest issue has been the timing for the half cock but can work around that, I have not seen an animated presentation on that. I am gathering that its involved with the bolt and the two arms.
I took the gun apart yesterday looking to see if anything obvious was there for the half cock bolt position.
Unfortunately I have not found an animation and I have not got a mental picture of how that works.
Does anyone have experience with replacement parts for that era and mfg of that gun? It seems rather than guess best would be to get the whole parts kit that should work correctly (if they will fit)
I certainly can do miner filing and that kind of work but just don't have the view of how the bolt part works (general idea but not anywhere near good enough to try to change anything)
My bolt looks to be filed down on the wrong side but the only detail I have gotten was for a Colt.
Added: I did find some good close up pictures of the bolt and the one in the gun is downright ugly filed and seems to be in the wrong places. Its the only part in there like it.
Unfortunately I have not found an animation and I have not got a mental picture of how that works.
Does anyone have experience with replacement parts for that era and mfg of that gun? It seems rather than guess best would be to get the whole parts kit that should work correctly (if they will fit)
I certainly can do miner filing and that kind of work but just don't have the view of how the bolt part works (general idea but not anywhere near good enough to try to change anything)
My bolt looks to be filed down on the wrong side but the only detail I have gotten was for a Colt.
Added: I did find some good close up pictures of the bolt and the one in the gun is downright ugly filed and seems to be in the wrong places. Its the only part in there like it.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Response from whom? What was the exact question that generated this response?RC20 said:
If you draw the hammer back to half cock and release it (not pull the trigger -- allow the hammer to settle in place on the half-cock step, thumb OFF the hammer), where is the bolt? Does the cylinder turn?RC20 said:
Response was that Half Cock should allow cylinder to spin. It does not. I did not know it should, I did know cylinder would spin but not that it was supposed to spin at half cock (it makes sense but its been 45 years since I had a SA gun).
I can see it looking at the gun from the side that the bolt drops down initially as the hammer starts to move (and cylinder starts to turn) but the bolt pops back up by the time the hammer is at half cock.
I am starting to get the relationship between the bolt (fingers?) and the slanted pin in the hammer.
From the pictures of a bolt I can see it was misfiled at the factory or it was filed down prior to my wife owning it. I have to check with her again on who she bought it from.
Having been a mechanic for 35 years (machinery not cars but a lot of engine work aka Generators and fire pumps) I know not to not have the replacement part on hand before I try anything (assuming I want to shoot it before parts arrive if I mess up)
Amazing how something that simple can be and the complex thought that had to go into it to get it to work. You can see why it took so long to get where they did.
If I am right on it being filed down on the wrong side of the finger then I will need a new bolt as while I can get it square, it will not have the bearing surface area it had before.
I can see it looking at the gun from the side that the bolt drops down initially as the hammer starts to move (and cylinder starts to turn) but the bolt pops back up by the time the hammer is at half cock.
I am starting to get the relationship between the bolt (fingers?) and the slanted pin in the hammer.
From the pictures of a bolt I can see it was misfiled at the factory or it was filed down prior to my wife owning it. I have to check with her again on who she bought it from.
Having been a mechanic for 35 years (machinery not cars but a lot of engine work aka Generators and fire pumps) I know not to not have the replacement part on hand before I try anything (assuming I want to shoot it before parts arrive if I mess up)
Amazing how something that simple can be and the complex thought that had to go into it to get it to work. You can see why it took so long to get where they did.
If I am right on it being filed down on the wrong side of the finger then I will need a new bolt as while I can get it square, it will not have the bearing surface area it had before.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Well, they're about as far away from you as they can possibly be and still be in the same country, but you might try giving VTI Replica Gun Parts a call and see if they have any suggestions. They are not (as far as I know) pistolsmiths, but they do sell parts for most if not all of the Italian replica sixshooters (except Armi San Paolo -- but they may know whose parts are most likely to fit).
https://www.vtigunparts.com/store/
Also, it appears that Armi San Paolo made good guns -- at least according to people here in TFL back in 2009:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338117
https://www.vtigunparts.com/store/
Also, it appears that Armi San Paolo made good guns -- at least according to people here in TFL back in 2009:
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338117
Aguila Blanca
Staff
That's much too small to see anything.RC20 said:
It looks like somebody has been working on it. What does the hammer cam look like. This will give you an idea how it's supposed to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFLgCLn2iQ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFLgCLn2iQ8
The 3D helps, more or less what I thought but better idea on the bolt which is almost impossible to see working.
My wife bought it from a gunsmith and nothing was done to the gun after she bought it. But work was done on the bolt and its the wrong side to boot.
The screws on the gun were in so tight it does not seem like it was taken apart but they could have been put back in too tight if someone did not know what they were doing.
None of the screws has marks on them. So all a guess but clearly the filing was deliberate either at factory or after.
I think these are better pictures
My wife bought it from a gunsmith and nothing was done to the gun after she bought it. But work was done on the bolt and its the wrong side to boot.
The screws on the gun were in so tight it does not seem like it was taken apart but they could have been put back in too tight if someone did not know what they were doing.
None of the screws has marks on them. So all a guess but clearly the filing was deliberate either at factory or after.
I think these are better pictures
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I would say after. ASP/Euroarms made good guns. I don't see them letting something like that out the door. A proper fitting hollow ground screwdriver won't leave any marks. That bolt looks more like a Pietta than a Uberti. If you can't find an ASP/Euroarms you might make a Pietta work.
I ordered the full parts kit from EMT. That gives me spares of everything even if I have to file them to fit, I have the originals for patterns.
Anything can not be as bad as that bolt with the slash cut on the wrong side. I do wonder if a worker did the wrong side, I can see it overtravled just a tad to the other side at the angle it was cut .
Worst case I get another bolt from VT. I may get a 2nd cylinder due to the range rules.
With the various U Tubes I understand how it works and why that cut angle is exactly the wrong thing (other side yes, that side no).
Back in the day it would have been a lot of hand fitting and any repair would have needed that.
Definitely interesting
Anything can not be as bad as that bolt with the slash cut on the wrong side. I do wonder if a worker did the wrong side, I can see it overtravled just a tad to the other side at the angle it was cut .
Worst case I get another bolt from VT. I may get a 2nd cylinder due to the range rules.
With the various U Tubes I understand how it works and why that cut angle is exactly the wrong thing (other side yes, that side no).
Back in the day it would have been a lot of hand fitting and any repair would have needed that.
Definitely interesting
Uberti may work but I doubt it, it's a different shape.
RC20, that's quite the variation in cylinder bore sizes, were it new I would be shipping it back. Were it mine? I would machine the smaller bores to the .446 diameter to have a consistent squeeze on the ball. Since you are not shaving lead the bores have apparently been chamfered. Your caliper jaws are not likely long enough to check the bore size at the bottom of the bore.
Ricklin:
No the caliper jaws are not long enough. I do have consistent lead plating going down and while the ring of lead is a better indicator, I am also going with the research as to having to go to a smaller size to get a chainfire.
I am not going to get real serious about shooting BP, makes for a change from my target shooting and interesting though.
Chambers are not chamferred but they might be tapered. The lead plating starts a bit below the top.
No the caliper jaws are not long enough. I do have consistent lead plating going down and while the ring of lead is a better indicator, I am also going with the research as to having to go to a smaller size to get a chainfire.
I am not going to get real serious about shooting BP, makes for a change from my target shooting and interesting though.
Chambers are not chamferred but they might be tapered. The lead plating starts a bit below the top.
Well it keeps being interesting.
I found the front sight missing and fortunately it let go on my work towel.
Its a Dovetail type on this gun/era. I super glued it back on though will have to get the silver solder out if that does not hold.
Parts should be here Monday and I can see how the bolt fits (or does not) and take that part from there.
Its too bad guns can't talk, I would be interested on that file cut on the arm of the factory bolt. Clearly it was done on the wrong side.
I found the front sight missing and fortunately it let go on my work towel.
Its a Dovetail type on this gun/era. I super glued it back on though will have to get the silver solder out if that does not hold.
Parts should be here Monday and I can see how the bolt fits (or does not) and take that part from there.
Its too bad guns can't talk, I would be interested on that file cut on the arm of the factory bolt. Clearly it was done on the wrong side.