"Armed Gunman" in Hospital

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ZeSpectre

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Armed or unarmed I can think of few other places that would be better for "forting up" than the average hospital. There is so much stuff that would work for improvised weapons in a hospital that it's not even funny.

Armed or unarmed I'd fort up with mine and wait for the situation to resolve in a "gunman" situation.

Now if we're talking possible explosives... I'm finding a way out PERIOD!
 

FrankenMauser

New member
Where I work a "person with a weapon" is a code silver but no one would announce "Code Silver, man with a gun blah blah blah". That's just ridiculous, the whole point of the code system is to keep things low key so everybody doesn't freak out. You don't create your own problems by causing a stampede before anything else happens.

Not all hospitals use the same code systems. This particular incident was at a hospital that uses a color (real color, not a shade of grey).

And, contrary to security protocol, they did announce the actual threat over the PA. However, it may have only been audible in certain parts of the hospital (main hallways and lobbies may have only heard the code).

Sorry about the delay in responding. I had an actual emergency arise in the family last night, and just returned from a different hospital.
I was hoping to clarify certain points as posters responded, but didn't have the time, with yesterday's emergency. So, I'll just give you the details.

The skinny:
On Wednesday, a man in camouflage clothing was seen walking in a field near a major road, about 1/2 mile from the University Hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah. He had binoculars, a rifle, and a black bag.

When word got out, and people started seeing ghosts, there was a report of the man being seen in one of the hospital's parking garages (it's a huge medical complex that actually has 3 hospitals connected to each other).

Review of security footage showed that the "suspect" was never there. In fact, he had not been seen by any cameras or persons, after getting to the foothills of the mountains.

My wife works at the hospital, and was visiting an ICU after she was done for the day. That's when the first and second lock down occurred. The unit was under staffed for the day, so my wife volunteered to handle the phones and security calls that would have to be made, so the rest of the staff could attend to their patients. (She knew she was stuck there, and tried to make the best of it.)

During the lock down, a patient's visitor approached the guard assigned to the unit, and explained that he preferred not getting involved in anything, but had forgotten to remove his concealed weapon. He admitted the mistake and asked the guard what he should do. The guard allowed him to return to his seat, next to the patient (he had been there for a while and had no rifle or camouflage - and was obviously not the "armed gunman").

The buildings and surrounding area was swept, and the security condition cleared. Nothing else came of the incident.

To add insult to injury, after the missteps with security protocol...
It was pointed out to the hospital, that the University campus is one of the best places to park, for hunters entering the mountains above. And... the General Season Muzzle Loader Deer season had started that morning.

Even if the choice of parking places, and hiking paths was not prudent; the hunter did nothing illegal. Even if it wasn't a hunter, the person still wasn't illegal.


I'm still not sure what my actions would have been. I probably would have taken the "Denial" path - sit there, and pretend my weapon doesn't exist (it is concealed, after all). But it's a tough choice to make. Had the situation been real, you never know what would have happened.
 

ClayInTx

New member
The metal detector detected your gun when you entered the hospital.

As the PA system screams “Lock Down!” run for a door before it’s locks and get out. The metal detector will again detect your gun.

That evening watch the 6 O’clock News Report, “Earlier today two armed gunmen entered the hospital and disappeared somewhere within the building. Police are searching and have called in dogs, the neighboring county sheriff, the SWAT Team, and have asked the governor to send the National Guard. Our reporter on the scene is Kristy Kringle. Good evening, Kristy, can you tell us what’s happening.”

“Hello, Don. Yes, earlier today two armed gunmen entered the hospital and disappeared somewhere within the building. Police are searching and have called in dogs, the neighboring county sheriff, the SWAT Team, and have asked the governor to send the National Guard. Back to you, Don.”

“Thanks, Kristy, for that up to date report. More at Eleven.”
 

Sefner

New member
ClayInTx said:
That evening watch the 6 O’clock News Report, “Earlier today two armed gunmen entered the hospital and disappeared somewhere within the building. Police are searching and have called in dogs, the neighboring county sheriff, the SWAT Team, and have asked the governor to send the National Guard. Our reporter on the scene is Kristy Kringle. Good evening, Kristy, can you tell us what’s happening.”

“Hello, Don. Yes, earlier today two armed gunmen entered the hospital and disappeared somewhere within the building. Police are searching and have called in dogs, the neighboring county sheriff, the SWAT Team, and have asked the governor to send the National Guard. Back to you, Don.”

Hahahahahaha!

Anyways, I don't think a metal detector alone could trigger a lock down... Being a hospital, if someone walks in with a prosthetic leg? Or a LEO through that entrance? It would take more than that.

Frank, did anything happen to the carrier? If not, kudos to the hospital. I wonder if the guard didn't say anything cuz he thought he might be safer with an extra gun there. That is speculation, but you never know.

That aside, this caused a lockdown?

On Wednesday, a man in camouflage clothing was seen walking in a field near a major road, about 1/2 mile from the University Hospital in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Half mile? I'm sure anywhere in SLC in a half mile radius there are tons of guns. What was the guy gonna do, take pot shots from 900 yards? What about the other buildings in the area? Did the college get locked down too?
 

WC145

New member
Not all hospitals use the same code systems. This particular incident was at a hospital that uses a color (real color, not a shade of grey).

No kidding, that's why I pointed out that we use something different at the hospital I work in.

The situation you've described is a bunch of people overreacting and, in turn, causing a bunch of other people to overreact, which, IMO, validates the "get down, stay put" plan.
 

therealdeal

New member
No. In MI (and I assume the state OP is referring to), in this situation, if you respond with force, you will be charged with murder. You have no legal right to be where you are (because you are armed) and thus any actions you take will not be treated as a justifiable homicide. This is the real world, where actions have consequences and heroes don't exist. The only reason to open yourself up to the criminal and civil liabilities of this is if your life is directly threatened. Unless you want to be a test case. There is absolutely no reason to leave your fortified area to save the damsels in distress.

SEFNER,

what makes you so vigilant and understanding of LIFE. no offense, but I don't take what you say as the Gospel. read my post. I never said one thing about being a hero or leaving the room, so stop jumping on the bandwagon because I went down in flames on the other thread. I don't care if I am on mars or in michigan or a taxi driver for venus. If a hospital gets locked down and the PA says there is a loose gunman inside and a nurse gets killed right down the hall(on the same floor as I said), I will not hesitate in using deadly force whether you like it or not. As far as being bruce willis and looking for this guy; I never said that, so keep your visions to yourself please.

This is the real world, where actions have consequences and heroes don't exist.

you might be on the real world, but the world I live in does have heroes and I can name many.
 

therealdeal

New member
I wish I had the actual link, but I was reading posts from 2006 last night or the night before(someone posted the link on a recent thread). It was from the 1st half of 2006 I think. Pax, you were on it but thats the only name I remember. It amazes me how many of the posts said they would unarm the gunman if they got robbed at gunpoint. the scenario was a man walking into his storage unit to find a young man in a ski mask pointing a 9mm at him. Everybody and his brother ripping him for turning around when the robber made him at gunpoint in the storage garage(robber and man- noone else). If the poor guy had fought back there is a very good chance he would've died right there and then, yet everyone thought he was wrong because he walked away alive. Not everything is taught in class, I assure you. if you want the link I'll find it. just because someone is willing to use a weapon on the internet, that doesn't mean he is triggerhappy. Enough said, I stepped in it on that other thread but threads and the internet can be as unpredictable as a jury.
ps if you were on other thread-my bank is a family bank in mass; we have none in virginia where we live:). just the way we do it. only time I go insdie is because I have to to open each baby's acct(we do it anyways even though they'll end up having a virginia bank).
 

armoredman

New member
My local hospital isn't posted, and my wife and I routinely carry in there when we have to go there. In the scenario you state, I would stay in the room. I do NOT know the layout of the hospital, I am NOT in a uniform or wearing armor, the staff do NOT know me from Adam, and I have NO way to coordinate my efforts with any hospital, city state or county responders. Bad juju.
I'll stay in the room until its all over with.

Oh, sorry, in ninja-speak, "I'll assume a localized defensive perimeter, and vigorously pursue the defense of myself and my loved ones within that deliniated space, at all costs!"
 

Sefner

New member
armored man makes a good point that I didn't think of: should you leave the confines of a safe area, there is too much you don't know.

Are those gunshots the shooter or the SWAT team? If it's the SWAT team I wouldn't want to come around the corner with a firearm. If someone sees you in the halls with a firearm, they may contact authorities with your description and you may be in for an unpleasant surprise when the room you are in is "cleared".

Is that guy running around with a gun the shooter or is he the undercover officor that was guarding the felon a few rooms over with a radio in contact with the guys on the ground?

Very good point, armored, there is too much that is not known.

I'd also like to join the growing number of posters saying that the hospital (minus the guard) handled it poorly. The last thing you want in a hospital or a situation like this are tons of people sprinting towards exits in a panic. Not that that's what happened, but the point is that panic and over-reaction play into the shooter's hand, not the innocent peoples'.

Can anyone in the area find out if the hospital has re-evaluated its security plans?
 

dreamweaver

New member
say nothing, do nothing unless/until you and yours are threatened.

+1
i'm a physician and carry concealed, despite the fact the the hospital has those "no handgun" signs at all the entrances.
we had an issue with a newborn gone missing and have a similar lock down code (pink). however, no hospital i've ever worked in, would announce the specific threat. doing that would only cause panic among the patients and alert the BG you're on to them.
the OP scenario is interesting, but, sheer fantasy.
 

FrankenMauser

New member
however, no hospital i've ever worked in, would announce the specific threat. doing that would only cause panic among the patients and alert the BG you're on to them.

Those were mine, and my wife's thoughts, as well. The actual threat was announced, none the less.


Half mile? I'm sure anywhere in SLC in a half mile radius there are tons of guns. What was the guy gonna do, take pot shots from 900 yards? What about the other buildings in the area? Did the college get locked down too?

Yea... the 'person of interest' was closer to a National Guard Armory, than the hospital. And the person that reported the 'man with a gun' was at a Jewish Center of some kind (can't remember if it's an actual church, or some kind of counseling / teaching center). The Jewish Center locked down for a short time, but I can't find any evidence of any other buildings taking more action than heightened security (and that's a guess). Even the VA hospital and out-buildings (very close to the armory) didn't lock down in the slightest. The only place that seemed to respond much, was the University. Campus police helped with the search. (From what I understand, hospital security is its own entity, but works with campus police.)

I think the phantom 'man with a gun' in the parking garage made them think they had him located, and saw the hospital as his target.


The situation you've described is a bunch of people overreacting and, in turn, causing a bunch of other people to overreact, which, IMO, validates the "get down, stay put" plan.

Yep. A lot of security protocols were ignored, or violated. I'm sure there will be some fallout from this incident.
Like you, I too, think it helps reinforce the position of:
Let the hospital staff do what they're trained to. Stay put. Stay vigilant. Don't do anything stupid.
 

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
FrankenMauser said:
And the person that reported the 'man with a gun' was at a Jewish Center of some kind (can't remember if it's an actual church, or some kind of counseling / teaching center). The Jewish Center locked down for a short time, but I can't find any evidence of any other buildings taking more action than heightened security (and that's a guess).

Ever since Buford Furrow, Jewish community centers and synagogues have had a case of the 'noids about lone guys in camo with guns. Not that I necessarily blame them.

In new, jumpy America, we tend to spot gunmen and terrorists even more frequently than our grandparents spotted Nazi sub periscopes...
 

pax

New member
In new, jumpy America, we tend to spot gunmen and terrorists even more frequently than our grandparents spotted Nazi sub periscopes...

Ain't that the truth!

Thanks for the good discussion, everyone. Time to wrap this one up.

pax
 
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