Are you new to Shotguns?

[hogdogs]

MYTH... You need to find the best fitting gun for home defense or general hunting!
FACT... The human is of the most adaptive creatures created and with practice you will be fine!
PROOF... Millions of soldiers and Law Enforcement pros use a different gun in duty than on the skeet field and have no option of picking the "RIGHT GUN".
MYTH... Shotguns allow unaimed fire to defend the home.
Fact... The best you will get in most home defense discharge is a rather large entrance wound resembling a large bullet hole.
PROOF... Set up some targets and test them all.
MYTH... A pistol is better for HD as it is easier to hold, aim, fire, and defend from the bad guy...
FACT... A shotgun allows you many SAFER holds, it is a more "natural" aim for the human brain (try making a pistol size pool cue and let a beginner try a regular cue and the 10 inch and come tell me the results)It is easier to LEARN to defend a long gun from an attacker than a pistol.
MYTH... Bird shot is fine for HD and safer....
FACT... Birdshot can never be counted on to be acceptable at less than POINT BLANK, NEAR CONTACT distance like 1 foot on a large animal.

One good use for bird shot is training. It is great to learn how to aim a shotgun.
It is also good to ease "flinch factor" by randomely loading heavy (even 3 inch) loads 'tween low brass loads. Just run thru them aiming as you would and DO NOT TRY TO PLAN the heavy round... rather learn to ignore it...
Good luck all you new guys!
Brent

 

[oneounceload]

your facts are based on what data? Please provide the link.

You point, not aim, a shotgun.

For best results, less recoil effects(getting cheek slammed, etc.), a shotgun does have to fit

I would never rule out the use of a handgun - especially if you are wounded during an attack - how would fire your "pool cue" long gun one handed with any degree of accuracy.

While 00 buck is better, birdshot is better than nothing, especially at bedroom distances

no matter what form of HD you select, even if it is a baseball bat, PRACTICE is paramount. Buying ANY gun, shooting it once or twice and sticking it in the corner or nightstand is not something I would recommend. Too many people in that instance have their guns taken away and used on them.....

JMO.....YMMV

 

[hogdogs]

Well... golly you got me???
I never owned a gun I just post to make folks think I do....
Aim/point? Tiring dontcha think? I point a pool cue too! Remember Mr.Oneounceload I am addressing NEW shotgunners! I sure hope they were already shooters so "AIM" is already in the vocabulary!
"FOR BEST RESULTS" Hire a crew to guard the place at night! To get cheek slammed you MUST really PUTZ the hold altogether! Not too many cases in recent memory of a cop, soldier or home owner losing the battle due to WHAAAAA "I got a boo-boo on my face"... No worse than a slide wound to the web of the thumb! Like I said MILLIONS use what ever shotgun is in their hands each day... without option of changing it out!
Wounded? Right or left side? Left side I still could manage fine... right? Might put me off a bit. You could handily defend your long gun better with one hand/arm than a handgun in one hand.
Brent

 

[Super-Dave]

Can't we all just get along?

All we do lately is mud sling.

Lets save the arguments for the important stuff like which is better for home defense, flatchete shot shells or dragons breath shotgun shells.

I for one live in a brick home and think dragons breath would be a better choice.

.

 

[oneounceload]

wow, childish semantics aside, please post the links to back up your "facts"...if it's YO, that's fine, say so and let's have a meaningful debate....

one does not need to "really putz" the hold in order to get your cheek slapped, and slapped hard....add in a stress-filled scenario, low light, awoken from sleep, nerves on edge....just one more thing that could prove to be disasterous

most LEO's, unless they are avid shooters, don't get to practice enough with either their HG or SG....my dad never did, he was an LEO for 33 years - they received minimal range time..

as to aim/point- I tend to think most people know what the word point means....you aim at static targets, usually closing one eye and losing peripheral and binocular vision..it requires a lot of practice to acquire good skill sets...pointing is done naturally, with both eyes open, and works great for dynamic targets.....a lot of people can look at an object, close their eyes, raise their hand in a pointing manner, open their eyes and have their finger pointing to the object - which is what they should be able to do with a shotgun - one less thing to think about, especially in a stress scenario

sorry you seem so put out by someone else who doesn't totally agree with you

 

[BigJimP]

I agree with Oneounceload ......fit is critical on a shotgun if you want to consistently hit what you are "looking" or shooting at. The concept doesn't change whether its HD or skeet. If you shoulder a shotgun, your eye is the rear sight - and if the point of impact is 2" low at 3 feet in a defensive situation that might mean its 14" low at 21 feet - and there is no way that's a good idea.

Can LE officers pick their weapon - probably not / have many of us grown up using whatever shotgun was in the safe - sure / was it effective (not usually) - especially with repeated shots in the field. Can you learn where to mount a "standard" configured shotgun - to make it work / sure, with some practice but without consistent practice it becomes a crapshoot. If the gun fit you, every time you pick it up, you are back in the groove very quickly.

As to the debate of your other points - and yes, you said you were adressing new shotgunners(although I'm not sure why that matters ..) - but to flat out say bird shot is not effective, a shotgun is a more natural weapon to point and shoot, its easier to learn to defend a shotgun than a handgun ....just is way off base in my view. It's my opinion and backed up to some extent by tests from the Valhalla weapons training school that birdshot can be effective especially out to 30 feet or so. It is my opinion that firing a shotgun requires training - especially if you don't want it taken away in a defensive situation. Is it easier to point than a handgun - maybe but personally, I think its a tossup - and both can be learned effectively.

 

[oneounceload]

Lets save the arguments for the important stuff like which is better for home defense, flatchete shot shells or dragons breath shotgun shells.

I for one live in a brick home and think dragons breath would be a better choice.

Thought you liked 00 or 000 buck?

 

[bestbod85]

''your facts are based on what data? Please provide the link.

You point, not aim, a shotgun.

For best results, less recoil effects(getting cheek slammed, etc.), a shotgun does have to fit

I would never rule out the use of a handgun - especially if you are wounded during an attack - how would fire your "pool cue" long gun one handed with any degree of accuracy.

While 00 buck is better, birdshot is better than nothing, especially at bedroom distances

no matter what form of HD you select, even if it is a baseball bat, PRACTICE is paramount. Buying ANY gun, shooting it once or twice and sticking it in the corner or nightstand is not something I would recommend. Too many people in that instance have their guns taken away and used on them.....''

GET READY FOR RANT


ok 1. why did you reply your opinions in such a negative and defensive way?
from your post you seem almost as if you were looking for an argument (better yet you seem as though you were in the middle of the argument)
completly unnecessary.

2. the op stated that this is for beginners - are you a beginner? - no? then of course your going to have your opinions as well (just like the op did). do i agree with everything the op said? no, but i did not take his post as a personal attack.

3. you said birdshot is better than nothing ( and i agree) however, in the original post " MYTH... Bird shot is fine for HD and safer....
FACT... Birdshot can never be counted on to be acceptable at less than POINT BLANK, NEAR CONTACT distance like 1 foot on a large animal."

the op does not suggest INTENTIONAL use of birdshot as a HD round, the fact that it is better than nothing is not what is being talked about. I agree that you should not load a hd gun with birdshot, but if it was all i had then i absolutly would use it.

4. the op did not include a link to any "sources" because this is obviousily opinion based on the op's experiences. and to suggest that just because someone DOES post a link to "sources" does not necessarily mean it is UNDOUBTABLY true ( there are a million studies for and against every argument) .

5. I find it interesting that you ask for sources to validate the OP's "FACTS" however everything you have posted has been YOUR OPINION, why is it that you are entitled to your opinion but he is so obviosly wrong in posting his!?

rant over - how about the next time we read someones posts, we try and exercise a little tact, and try not to jump down their throat (unless deserved of course ) Have a nice day

 

[oneounceload]

as I stated, MY opinion, not facts as he stated....

if those statements were facts, then fine, post the links so I can do some reading...I even asked please, hardly asking for an argument....I even asked so as to have a meaningful debate, since new people might take his statements as fact and not opinion...some of the views I disagree with

nor did I take his original post as a personal attack, until his personal attack against me for disagreeing with his opinion...

opinions are just that opinions...facts are verifiable - if you are going to post something as a fact, then you should be able top provide the link that establishes it as so....otherwise, state it as your opinion, and we debate back and forth without the rants and attacks

 

[bestbod85]

so your problem with the post ,was that he used the word "FACTS" , wow

"if those statements were facts, then fine, post the links so I can do some reading...I even asked please, hardly asking for an argument....I even asked so as to have a meaningful debate, since new people might take his statements as fact and not opinion...some of the views I disagree with"

"otherwise, state it as your opinion, and we debate back and forth without the rants and attacks "

so by your own admission you answer posts as if they were debates?, i read and answer posts as if they were questions and answer if i have experience with the situation or problem, i'm not here and do not read posts with the intention of debating the op's. whatever to each his own.

I myself don't have enough free time to debate strangers all day. I do however have time to help someone with a problem or lend advice to those that have asked for it.

maybe i'm wrong (happens ) maybe i mistook your first post to be helpfull and full of advice. maybe i am the only one here who thought that by CORRECTING the op on everything he said that was not to your liking, you were being rude in going about it. also, just a thought but it seems that the OP also thought that you were being rude, distastfull and tactless. if your intention was to shed some light on the op's "facts" by debating him until someone says WOW YOUR RIGHT, there are better ways to go about it than to pick apart his post and correct it as you see fit with your opinions.

also, i'm not the only one who thought you were being rude. for your own edification, that is not my opinion it is fact, my source for this fact is that the op responded in a way that suggest you may have offended him.
HAVE A NICE DAY.

 

[oneounceload]

if you do not agree with someone's opinion, and you respond with yours, offering a differing view, and the conversation continues, then you are, in fact having a debate....If someone asks a question, and I feel I have an opinion or a link to a site, I will gladly share it

if my sharing my differing opinion on his statements is "attacking", oh well.....

 

[bestbod85]

"if my sharing my differing opinion on his statements is "attacking", oh well.... "


Now thats a better attitude, enjoy your day (eerr night )

 

[mikenbarb]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thats why we live in the United States Of America and not some country with alot of sand dunes. PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE dont let this go into another HD or birdshot for HD debate. They closed that thread for a REASON!!!!! Cant anyone find something else to discuss besides bird shot and crack heads riding Harleys and busting your door down????? If this is all your concerned with than use birdshot and get spike strips at the end of your road and a moat around your house filled with alligators. PROBLEM SOLVED! Now, Wasnt that easy??

 

[Boris Bush]

oneounceload


Are you serious? Facts sometimes do not come from links, but from real world use. Anyone can make a link that says whatever they want.........

 

[RoscoeC]

The true secret of giving advice is, after you have honestly given it, to be perfectly indifferent whether it is taken or not, and never persist in trying to set people right.

Hannah Whitall Smith

No one wants advice -- only corroboration.

John Steinbeck

 

[Firepower!]

I stumbled upon this thread since I am new to shotguns as far as hunting and collection goes. Yet I am ever more confused than before.

 

[john1911]

Facts sometimes do not come from links, but from real world use. Anyone can make a link that says whatever they want.........

And anyone can make their "facts" say what they want.

Everyone needs to take the internet, especially gun forums, less seriously. How can people be sure that those giving advice actually know what they are talking about? Trust but verify.

 

[RoscoeC]

Good advice, John1911.

There is good news and bad news with regard to the internet.

The good news is anonymity.

The bad news is anonymity.

You seldom know whether the person meting out advice has any credentials or not.

If you want real substantial information, then you will have to do your homework. You will have to read lots of posts, and it will become evident that there are those that have real experience and knowledge here. It is up to you to find out who they are.

I could tell you who I think they are, but who am I?

 

[johnbt]

"I never owned a gun I just post to make folks think I do....
Aim/point? Tiring dontcha think?"

Tiring? Not at all. There is a substantial difference between aiming and pointing a shotgun. A major world of difference. As far as whether or not you've ever owned a gun, well, I only have your posted words to go on, so if you say you've never owned one I'll have to believe you.

John

 

[hogdogs]

I do point my shotguns... but I also point quite often with pistols and rifles.
I do not need the anonymity the internet offers to stay secure. Sorry to miff off so many but I guess I loosely used the term "FACT"... As for firing while wounded... some said you could shoot better with a handgun bla bla bla... Some tuff sumbishes... I have had some pretty in depth injury since 1968 when I was born. I assure you that many factors say you do not know your body... I would rather try to level a shotgun with my toe than try to hold my shakin' hand still to shoot accurate with the pistol. With these wounds your BP plummets, pulse ZOOMS, adrenaline flows, if male... testosterone also runs a muck.
Sorry to use the word "FACT" too loosely...
Brent