Arab at the range

[grymster2007]

You do realize that as of ~1890 Palestine was almost entirely populated by, get this, PALESTINIANS!

Still is! And Israel is occupied by Jews. No reason this shouldn’t work, except the Palestinians can’t stand the fact that the Jews came back and made something of the land. The few Palestinians that occupied Israel in the late 1800s had done nothing with the land. It was barren and desolate. Now that the Jews have added value, the Palestinians want it back.

 

[SamHouston]

A very professional guy in our office is quite the knowledgable gun collector. Now that it's OK to conceal in your personal auto without a permit in Texas, I asked if he kept a gun. His response was "No, the last thing a young black man needs is to be pulled over with a gun."

Sad, that there is truth to his statement. I'm surpried he had not taken the time to get a license.

 

[Manedwolf]

No reason this shouldn’t work, except the Palestinians can’t stand the fact that the Jews came back and made something of the land. The few Palestinians that occupied Israel in the late 1800s had done nothing with the land. It was barren and desolate. Now that the Jews have added value, the Palestinians want it back.

Also witness how well they're running things in the areas they do control. Hamas and Fatah are just doing such a wonderful job of running a peaceful, civilized, progressive, democratic utopia, aren't they?

If you have one kid that plays nice with their toys, and another that, every toy they're given, they break and throw on the floor and have a fight or temper tantrum and can't even pick up their own messes, which one would seem to deserve more toys?

It is oppression because Israel maintains direct, military control over the Palestinians, and they are barely 2nd class citizens.

Okay! Let's have Israel stop selling electricity and oil to the Pals tomorrow. Let them buy it on the open market instead, let them make their own deals. Think they will? Or think the factions will squabble and have some gun battles while the lights stay out? I'd bet on the latter.

Also note, TargetTerror. You used the word "Zionist". Being that I consider that a derogatory term that usually comes from terrorists, if I heard that from you, I wouldn't want you on my range, and I'd probably let the authorities know to take a peek at you. Because that does cross into "possible threat" territory.

Sorry, but that's the truth. Israel is an ally of the United States, and a good one. I cheered when Israel laid the smackdown on Syria by hitting their nuke facility with a precision strike, so did most Americans I know.

You're going to have to deal with that, and tone down your language. Using "zionist" will get you labeled as a threat and enemy pretty darned quick.

 

[TargetTerror]

Also note, TargetTerror. You used the word "Zionist". Being that I consider that a derogatory term that usually comes from terrorists, if I heard that from you, I wouldn't want you on my range, and I'd probably let the authorities know to take a peek at you. Because that does cross into "possible threat" territory.

You're going to have to deal with that, and tone down your language. Using "zionist" will get you labeled as a threat and enemy pretty darned quick.

You are completely incorrect. "Zion" is the JEWISH term for the Jewish homeland, aka Israel. The Zionist movement was a worldwide JEWISH movement beginning ~1890 to reclaim Israel for the Jews. Zionists are Jewish supporters of the Zionist movement.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/zionist

These are not derogatory terms BY ANY MEANS. My family is Jewish, and though I'm not religious in any way, I've been to temple and have heard, on countless occasions, TONS of references to Zion, Zionism, and Zionists. They were NOT derogatory, they were simply a way to define someone that wants Israel to belong to the Jews.

Your ignorance on this issue speaks to your ignorance on the entire Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The Palestinians cannot function independent of Israel precisely because Israel has oppressed and coralled them. The notion that Israel plays "nice" by any means is a complete crap. You know this whole "terrorism" thing we're currently fighting? You know who PIONEERED the current techniques of terrorism? ZIONISTS! (no, that is not meant in a derogatory fashion, see above). The Irgun was a militant, armed outgrowth of the Zionist Movement. On July 22, 1946, they bombed the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, killing 91 people, most of them British. That plan was spearheaded by Menachem Begin. Sound familiar? He was the Prime Minister of Israel in the late 1970s. (That is but one example out of DOZENS).

When you strangle a people as hard as Israel has strangled the Palestinians, OF COURSE they are going to attack with whatever means they have. Far from an ally, Israel's furtherance of the conflict only serves as a daily reminder to the Arab world of Western imperialism forced upon them, and strengthens the hate against the US which already runs deep in the region. (Do some research on the various peace "proposals" before you spout the line that the Palestinians are 100% to blame for rejecting them.) Sure, there might have been a few choice Israeli military acts here and there that benefited the US, but that is little consolation when their entire foreign and domestic policy directly serves to fuel our enemies.

 

[TargetTerror]

Still is! And Israel is occupied by Jews. No reason this shouldn’t work, except the Palestinians can’t stand the fact that the Jews came back and made something of the land. The few Palestinians that occupied Israel in the late 1800s had done nothing with the land. It was barren and desolate. Now that the Jews have added value, the Palestinians want it back.

What the hell are you talking about? First of all, Palestine does not exist. Palestine DID exist where Israel now stands. There are no Palestinians in Palestine anymore.

Second, define "made something of the land," first of all, and then quote me a source saying that the Palestinians want the land that Jews stole from them solely because something has now been "made of the land," and NOT because, um, it was where the families had grown up for GENERATIONS.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I think this thread is going south quickly.

The irrational arguments posted offer little hope for peaceful reconciliation in the Middle East.

Half the USA was once Mexico and all of it was 'owned' by the Native Americans at one time.

The King of Jordan way back when was assassinated because he thought the influx of Jewish refugees into the area would be a good thing and stimulate the area. Sadat was assassinated because he thought peace was a good thing as was Rabin.

Unless, the Palestinian population abandons the idea that Israel can be totally eliminated, they will stay in the squalor of their areas and camps.

So, to cut to the chase - I suggest our OP avoid his view of 'repression' at the range. Also, self-hating Jews need a touch of therapy. They are a species like the ones who calmly went into the trains or even some who thought they deserved the genocide because of some nuance of faith.

At a recent IDPA match, a good shooter friend brought a Chinese national (from the mainland!!) - nice guy. We didn't talk politics with him.

Get the point.

 

[watchingtv]

Martyn4802 your self righteous closet racism and hypocrisy is blatantly obvious. You have the nerve to push your values on others with that ridiculous reply of yours and at the same time tell others to "assimilate". You go to another country where you're probably not wanted by the majority of the population and build a factory and you seem proud of this (this speaks for itself).
Your post is threatening in tone and you manage to paint gunowners as dangerous hotheads: "especially at a rifle range where guys have a sense of power having guns with them."
and please tell me what is "moslem"????

 

[grymster2007]

Palestine does not exist.

Of course it does. I’d say it includes the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Those places constitute the domain over which the Palestinian government presides.

the Palestinians want the land that Jews stole from them

In an earlier post you stated that the Jews bought the land. But before you reiterate the “local tradition of work-the-land own-the-land” business, let me point out that’s not how the world works. The concept does seem to be often applied in an effort to excuse the Palestinians from having to purchase their own land.

 

[Ledbetter]

I'm "white." My best friend when I was growing up was Syrian. His family treated me like one of their own, always. They were wonderful people.

I can't abide people who can't respect others because they are a little bit different.

 

[Shadi Khalil]

Hey Glen, i suppose OP stands for original poster?


I suggest our OP avoid his view of 'repression' at the range


go back and read what i wrote, i never said anything about "repression at the range"

 

[DWARREN123]

Just learn to speak southern, really freak them out.
Does not matter to me as long as people are being safe and not breaking the rules.

 

[TargetTerror]

Of course it does. I’d say it includes the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Those places constitute the domain over which the Palestinian government presides.

Wrong. Palestine does not exist. The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are officially no-mans land, aka the Occupied Territories. They are occupied because Israel has declared military rule in these areas. The Palestinian Authority has as much governing power over them as the Navajo tribe would have over its reservation with with 10,000 US soldiers patrolling and ruling under military rule.

 

[TargetTerror]

Also, self-hating Jews need a touch of therapy. They are a species like the ones who calmly went into the trains or even some who thought they deserved the genocide because of some nuance of faith.

Excuse you? Now its my turn to be offended. How does my disapproval of Israeli foreign policy make me 1) a self-hating Jew or 2) a separate "species" who, if I understand your implications correctly, agreed with the Holocaust and would basically have been a willful part of it?

Jewish people exist independently of Israel. Israel as it currently exists as a state is a product more of Zionism then of Judaism. And yes, you can be Jewish and not a Zionist. Just like you can be American and disaprove of its foreign policy.

Try again.

 

[grymster2007]

the Palestinian Authority has as much governing power over them

Maybe if they’d actually govern, rather than sponsoring scumbag terrorists, Israel would let them go about their business and they could live in the portion of the original Palestine that the Israeli’s will allow. Which by the way is far more than the Jordanians have offered up.

But hey…

Palestine does not exist.

OK… you win. So now that Palestine does not exist, you’ll stop complaining?

 

[Rockrz]

Don't act like an extremist who is planning something and you should be OK in most cases, I would think.

Also, it may help to wear clothes that Americans would consider "normal" so you look like "normal" folks so others won't get all freaked out.

Personally, I think it's great that people can come here from all parts of the world and live free. The problem is when they don't assimulate and act as though they appreciate this country.

If Americans go abroad, we are expected and it is demanded that we observe the customs of the country we are in...but many who come here refuse to do that, which is a major problem for most Americans.

Don't talk politics or religion at the range

Why? I can't lie...Jesus has made me a much better shot than I was as an un-believer

 

[Baba Louie]

teifmen1948, I'm glad your parents did come here and that they found a nation that espouses freedom. You should take them to the range sometime as well as your brother. Sometimes being free means you've got to be ready to fight. Actually, most of the time that's one of the pre-requisites.

Teach your brother well, my friend. Honor and thank your parents for having the courage to leave their homeland and start over. That is courage. While you may be Arab in your bloodline, once you live here and are proficient with a long gun, I think you qualify to call yourself an American Rifleman as long as you're willing to defend what little values we hold dear.

Interesting thread development.

Everyone in this nation is foreign as we all came from somewhere, or at least our ancestors (predecessors?) did, including the natives... altho' I guess 30,000 years does eventually sort of make this a home of sorts, after awhile. But the weak are driven out by the strong. Age old story... and there it is.

 

[Manedwolf]

Everyone in this nation is foreign as we all came from somewhere, or at least our ancestors (predecessors?) did, including the natives...

I have no problem with people who want to come here and become Americans, with American values of freedom, equality, liberty, justice and the like.

I do have a problem with people who come here and want to change "here" to be more like "there", whether it be in terms of culture, intolerant religiosity, or both.

 

[Ledbetter]

Check the books.

Before 1918, Palestine was under Turkish rule. After 1918, Britain ruled Palestine until the U.N. created Israel in 1948.

Palestine did not exist as an "independent" state under the rule of its own chosen government until recently.

Do not abuse me, these are just the facts.

 

[Bud Helms]

This thread is one more political post from being closed.

The problem is that this thread has nearly sixty posts and has turned into a typical L&P discussion. We won't move this topic with that many posts.

Stick to the subject of the opening post, please.