Arab at the range

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Shadi Khalil

New member
Hello all. I have a question for you all, it may be alittle touchy but its something that has been bugging me for awhile. its been a while since I've been out shooting since i had to get rid of my guns (girl, living situations, a real nightmare) but im just about to get back into the game and wanted to address something. Ok, some backround...My mom and dad came over from the middle east in the seventies, my mom fleeing from baathist repression and my father from israeli oppresion. they ended up in chicago and eventually VA. So on to my point....My name is obviosly an arab name, i look arab, things i am perfectly comfortable and pround of. however, in the past when i was at the range I couldnt help but wonder if i made people feel uncomfortable. I never once was treated differently, i am on a first name basis with all the guys at my local shop and was at my range (till it burned down) but i wonder, when i was in there with my Romainian or practicing drawing drills with my handguns, were people looking at me thinking, "i wonder what osama over here is training for?"

so has anybody here ever thought that? or if you have never experinced it, would you? Im not gonna lie, i got on the metro the other night and a suspisous looking middle easterener got on clutching a back pack and prayer beads. the whole time on the train he had was eyes closed and was praying....so even i find myself profiling. bit i think that the local range is different. i speak in english very well, i was born here, i graduated from an american school, im basically what the pudits on fox news told you to look out for after 9/11. so lets here it. if the moderaters think this is gonna be a problem thread, im fine with it being pulled.
 
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pax

New member
People are people, and will think whatever people think.

For myself, it's never been an issue, and never will.

If someone's got a problem with the color of your skin or where your parents or grandparents were born, that's their problem. Don't make it yours.

pax
 
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Sgt.Fathead

Moderator
America

This country is supposed to be about a certain level of tolerance and understanding. Post 9/11, yeah, you're going to run into some yahoos and ignorance. Let that be their problem, not yours. To believe that every Arab is a terrorist is an idea as stupid and ill-informed as saying every pro-gun person is a paranoid killer.

If you're anywhere near central NJ, drop me an email. I shoot most weekday mornings at the local club, an outdoor range, and always take guests. I'm a veteran of the first Gulf War, have traveled the globe extensively and know this; good folks tend be be good folks, we're all worried about the same things in different languages!
 
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ogree

New member
teifmen1948,

It never crossed my mind, I am more cautious of people acting like idiots on the range, not paying attention to where their muzzles are pointed in respect to general safety.
The only thing I have encoutered as odd was, one time I was running the local range for friends and a getleman was doing some target shooting.
Now that is normal for a firearms range, however, he was shooting an AKM and wearing a postal jacket.

I LMFAO.
 
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Buzzcook

New member
America has a rich strain of racism combined with an almost total ignorance of foreign cultures, peoples, and religions.
The number of people that aren't either Arab or Muslim that have been attacked because someone thought they "looked it", continues to grow.

Supposedly the generations coming up are more tolerant.

Till then get a permit and carry a pistol.
 
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BillCA

New member
teifmen,

My neighbor is from a similar background and we go shooting at a local range every few months. No one has given us any trouble and I suspect they won't for two basic reasons. Here in CA, he's more likely to be thought of as Hispanic, not Arabic and he speaks English as well (if not better) than a lot of people. If anyone were to get offensive, my statement to them is that "he's as much of a terrorist as you are a member of the Brady Campaign."

On the other hand, I did take a coworker to the range one time and ran into some ignorance-based prejudices. My coworker is a light-skinned, bearded, turban wearing, Indian Sikh. He's also a former mathematics professor (India) and speaks excellent English. Two fellas approached me during a ceasefire and asked why I was shooting with "that A-rab". I laughed and told them he was an Indian Sikh, not a muslim or Arabic. I also told them that they were free to have their own prejudices, but before they mouth-off next time, they had best educate themselves on the differences.
 
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TexasSeaRay

New member
Last place I'd expect to see or find an Arab terrorist practicing for Alllah would be at a public gun range on a Saturday afternoon.

If anyone looks at you funny or says anything, just tell them you're CIA and then go back to your business.

Jeff
 
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Martyn4802

New member
teifman1948,

A lot of how you are treated, and perceived, is how you conduct yourself at the range. If you are affable, and friendly, you'll get along fine. The flip side is where the problems arise. If you are arrogant, and confrontational, I guarantee you will have trouble. Are you Christian or Moslem? If you are on a Moslem hate America mission, you'll have more trouble that you bargain for, especially at a rifle range where guys have a sense of power having guns with them.
I spent 9 years of my adult life living and working in the Middle East, living one year in Saudi Arabia, and spent 7 years building a factory in Egypt, plus one dedicated year in a language school learning Arabic. Just be one of the guys at the range, and everywhere else in your life, and you'll be accepted like anyone else. But, work hard, with integrity. And, never forget that America gave you the freedom to go to the range, and a life free of Bathists harassment. If you are here in America to assimilate into our culture, you will be in good stead. If you came here to change America into a Moslem society totally, you will have mucho trouble. America is comprised of many religions; all have a place, and the people of those religions deserve the same treatement that you desire.

Martyn
 
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Double Naught Spy

New member
A lot of how you are treated, and perceived, is how you conduct yourself at the range.
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Right, so long as you are not acting like an idiot or screaming "Allāhu Akbar" as you shoot, then you are just another person on the firing line.
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
America has a rich strain of racism combined with an almost total ignorance of foreign cultures, peoples, and religions.
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America is the most racially tolerant country on the face of this planet, with the highest percentage of foreign-born residents and the highest percentage of residents who speak a non-majority language at home.

The number of people that aren't either Arab or Muslim that have been attacked because someone thought they "looked it", continues to grow.
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The number of attacks on non-Muslims because of their "Arabic" appearance is increasing? Can you cite a credible source for that?
 
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Shadi Khalil

New member
Your replies are exactly in line with the general feeling of the country. infact after 9/11 most muslims and arabs were shocked at the amount of tolerance shown by americans in the wake of the attacks. it underscored the fact that this is a place for all people regardless of where there from and what they beleive. It also shows that most americans were rasised with a certain value system that you wont find in many places. In Austraila following the attacks in bali there were numours attacks against muslims and arabs in the austrila because of the high amount of ausi causilties. Before i wrote the post I had dinner at my mom and dads house and was telling them how I planned on taking my little brother to the range soon. My mom and dad, who still have some of there middle easteren mind set (fears of citizen informants, secert police, disapearings...) adn they began saying how they didnt think it was a good idea for me to go to the range and own guns.....They are good people but they have seen so many terrible things happen to there friends and family in the past, things they wont ever forget. As for me, i ussually dont think about that kind of thing, thats cause I have never experience anything negative. I think I'll show these replies to my parents the next time I see them. Keep them comin....thanks for the replies so far guys.....

Sgt., Im in NVA but sometimes work takes me north. If im ever up your way, I'll drop you a line.
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
I never once was treated differently, i am on a first name basis with all the guys at my local shop and was at my range (till it burned down)
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I can not recall ever being bothered by anyone's "Arabic" appearance when I used to shoot at Shooter's Paradise.

I used to focus more on the gang clothing some folks wore. Never saw any sideways grip shooting though. :D
 
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Manedwolf

Moderator
I don't even notice the color of someone's skin, really. I notice behavior.

The gangstas in oversized jerseys, multiple caps and gold jewelry who rent Glocks, those make me nervous, since they can't even hit the target and aren't the safest, either.

Someone who looks "arabic"? I wouldn't even notice. Not unless they were yelling "allahallah!" and trying for headshots every time...which, based on your post, is not something I suspect you're doing! :)
 
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cool hand luke 22:36

New member
cool hand,

Whats the deal with shooters? is it still outta commision? if so, any word on when it will be back up and running?
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The last I heard was that they do plan on reopening, but that they were waiting on an insurance settlement, and that they might reopen in a new location but are hoping to reopen the old one. That news is kind of old though.

From their updates:

5/7/07 The word is we are definitely going to open back in the same location. Plans are continually being updated and should be concluded soon. Stay tuned for more information as it becomes available. Same Bat time, same Bat channel…….
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I get this from their forum: http://www.shootersparadise.com/forums/index.php?
 
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azsixshooter

New member
I go shooting with an Armenian friend of mine and he never has any problems. That's here in Phoenix, but he definitely doesn't look Mexican.

We're lucky in this country to still be able to count middle eastern people as friends. In fact, I believe the only way we'll ever get a leg up on terrorism is to have middle eastern allies who can infiltrate the tight-knit terror groups.

I worked with a guy who came here from Iraq because he was collaborating with the good guys. I guess he had his own business and a family there. One day, the US contact told him they found out his name was on "a list" and they had to get him and his family out of there. He's a good guy and an awesome chess player. He told me that at one point he was the 3rd best in all of Iraq.

Anyway, last I checked the FBI was recruiting hard for arabic translators, but with the recent infiltration into the CIA via the FBI by a Hizbollah agent they might be a little slow to cozy up to new recruits. Still, it's a wonderful way for you to serve your country in a unique way that not everyone can offer. As long as you count yourself as an American and put this country, it's constitution and your fellow Americans before everything else then I wouldn't worry about what anyone else thinks.
 
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CrazyIvan007

New member
Teifman,

Judging by some other threads here at TFL, I would be more concerned when going to WalMart, if I were you...lol.

Seriously though, just do your thing, watch your back always and enjoy the freedoms afforded to all of us here in the great USA. You can't change people's feelings, so don't worry about them, unless they verbally or physically bug you about it.
 
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