AR Questions!

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XD Gunner

New member
I've been bitten by the infamous EBR bug. Was playing at my local gun shop and fondled a S&W M&P 15T rifle. I also fondled a Ruger SR556.

My initial observations

They are very, very similar, with Troy Industries littered everywhere, and the one major difference is the SR556 has the gas piston where the 15T is the standard impingement design. The salesman tried to sell me hard on the gas piston, but for my needs (varmints, targets, fun) I don't ever see the gas piston design as being any more than 1.5lbs more weight. Both systems get dirty, they just get dirty in different places. I see no full auto or suppressor in the guns future.

Am I correct in my assumptions? It seems the M&P 15T is a MUCH better buy then the SR556 right now. $1250 for the 15T, $1700 for the SR556. $450 for a gas piston system?

Any other AR's in this style (modular, M4) that I should look at as a better deal than the M&P15T, or is it pretty much the deal to be had?
 
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grubbylabs

New member
I have been bit really hard by the "Gun" bug in general and I think that one of the next guns I will purchase will be a AR style gun in 308. I will purchase a marlin XS7 in 308 first though.

But any way with all the looking around I have done thy all start at around 800 for a bare bones and go up rather quickly from there. As far as a gas or impingement design I could not tell you as I am very new to all of this.

I just know I want the two different 308 rifles,(really bad)
 
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the rifleer

New member
Both are supposed to be very good rifles. The piston system is supposed to be more reliable, but if you just plan to shoot it at the range i don't think that it had a true advantage. if you were intending to be in a combat situation, it might be worth it.

personally i would just get whichever i liked better, which would probably the be Ruger. i am a fan of ruger quality and customer service. it it ever breaks, they fix it and ship it back.
 
X

XD Gunner

New member
The only reliability issues I'm aware of are caused by the tight tolerances of the design and gritty materials being introduced. The Piston System, as far as I have understood, was just something to make cleaning easier and to facilitate the long term usage of a suppressor or fully automatic fire. It also introduces a whole new set of problems.
 
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Ifishsum

New member
I'd stay with the DI system for now. I've had a chance to to a fair bit of shooting with both piston and DI guns and have found both to be equally reliable. The piston models have a touch more barrel lift and weight that I didn't like (noticeable to me anyway) - and I don't find cleaning the DI system any more of a chore. The only significant advantage to the piston system that makes a difference for me is with a suppressor - I love the smell of powder smoke but not so much the taste :D
 
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russaz1911

New member
DPMS

I wouldn't buy either. I have built AR-15s for several years. I still don't like the piston system. Sure you don't have to clean it as often as you have to clean the bolt in a gas gun but it is a pain when you do have to clean it. I haven't had my hands on a Smith AR lately but the last few that I worked on were not as well built as Bushmaster or DPMS rifles as far as accurate rifles that function all the time. On the outside the Smiths do look better but the others function better. If you want a really nice AR go with a Rock River. All of my personal AR 15s are built on Rock River receivers with Olympic Arms barrels. Every AR I own will shoot 1" or less at 100 yards and most will do much better.

My ARs
24" bull .223match, 20" HBAR 5.56, 16" feather weight .223AI, 24" HBAR .243 WSSM, 16" bull 300 whisper, & DPMS 308LR
 
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blume357

New member
I have to concur with russaz1911.... I think you can do a

lot better with 1200 or less. If you are seriously thinking about spending 1700 (which is around $300 too much for the Ruger) I think you can get a Sig or such for that.
 
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Bartholomew Roberts

Moderator
I think your analysis is pretty good. In a 16" barrel, unsuppressed, there are really only going to be two things the piston offers over the DI:

1. Cleaning*
2. You can apply lubrication less frequently than every 500 rounds because it won't bake off as fast

(Actually it takes about 15 minutes to make either a DI rifle or a piston functionally clean; but if you like it white, glove spotless clean on all the visible surfaces, the piston wil be easier)

The piston will also bring different wear issues, faster heat mirage (if using a higher magnification scope), different recoil impulse, and usually even tighter clearances inside the upper receiver than the DI guns (typically because they have made the end of the carrier fatter to minimize carrier tilt).
 
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flight954

New member
Go w/ the S&W. If you want a good piston AR, save your money and get an LWRC, Noveske or POF. Don't waste your money on the Ruger
 
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tirod

Moderator
X2 the Bargain Bin AR. $599 gets a lot of AR for the price. I've handled them at gunshows, they don't show much of why they are used, i.e., they are clean, relatively unblemished, and all the right parts are there, unlike the bad old days of cast receivers and uber cheap assembly (aka Oly, etc.)

With your budget, you then get $500 for ammo, a considerable amount of blasting away for the year. With that under your belt, more than a few weekends hunting or at the range, and the expert advice of a dozen new friends sorted out, you'll have an idea of what more you want to do with it.

You can then buy up or mod it to suit.
 
X

XD Gunner

New member
Best bet for an AR-15 style carbine is to buy from the left side of "The Chart".
Click to expand...

What is "The Chart"?

I apologize for so many questions guys, I am completely new to AR's. Any and all help and advice is very appreciated though.
 
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David the Gnome

New member
Bud's has a really nice CMMG carbine with a flat top receiver, quad rail, and an aftermarket grip of some sort for about $800. Next time we go to the range remind me and I'll show you mine. It's basically the same thing as the M&P 15T except it doesn't come with the rail covers or the rear BUIS.
 
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bedlamite

New member
What is "The Chart"?
Click to expand...

The chart is so that brand snobs can tell everyone else their gun is closer to mil-spec (none of them actually are without a 14.5" barrel and a happy switch). Some of it is important, like a properly staked gas key. Some of it you may want to use non-mil-spec parts, like a stainless varmint barrel with a low profile gas block. Some of it you end up paying a large sum of cash for a possible and maybe insignificant increase in reliability.

The CMMG is a good deal.

Personally, for your first AR, I'd get a Spikes lower and M&A midlength kit and watch a few videos online to learn how to assemble the lower.
 
X

XD Gunner

New member
So building an AR, eh? What legal hurdles would I potentially have to cross? Can a built AR be sold? Is it something I could do in an afternoon, or is this a project?
 
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