AR peep sight question

[chris in va]

The peep hole on my M&P Sport is a bit large. I'd like to have one the size of my Garand so the front sight will come into focus, along with the target. Other than getting a $$$ replacement, is there some other trick I can do to make the hole smaller?

 

[MLeake]

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but you have it flipped to day, not night, right?

(I'm assuming, if it uses a standard AR rear, that it flips to two different positions, one large aperture - night, and one small aperture - day)

If it only has the one position, then I think you'd be stuck with getting a replacement.

 

[Chris_B]

Chris, I had the same thought on my 'plain jane' A2 type AR rifle with a full stock, and I am used to shooting the Garand too

I moved my head about an inch further down the stock by changing my shooting stance slightly, and the sight picture is just right for me now

 

[roklok]

The standard A2 sights two Aperture's are not designed for day and night, but rather for 0-200 yards and 300 yards and beyond. Of course, it is true that a larger aperture is easier to use in low light conditions, but in dim light it is doubtful you would be engaging targets at 300 plus yards anyway. On an A2 rear sight, there is a POI shift between the small and large apertures.

 

[tahunua001]

Sorry to ask a stupid question, but you have it flipped to day, not night, right?

(I'm assuming, if it uses a standard AR rear, that it flips to two different positions, one large aperture - night, and one small aperture - day)

If it only has the one position, then I think you'd be stuck with getting a replacement.
/QUOTE]
^ ditto, I've never seen an AR without the flip up long distance/short distance apertures but then again I haven't seen a plain jane M&P. I'm not sure if it's because of having an carbine length stock(instead of M4 length) or not but when I was shooting my rifle quals(navy) even with the small aperture, my front site was still a tiny blip in a big circle, it was like trying to use a red dot without the quick acquisition and clear sight picture

 

[madcratebuilder]

Fill the aperture with JB weld and then redrill the hole to the diameter of your liking. If you do a clean job it well be darn near invisible.

 

[tirod]

Not everybody has the skills and equipment to do precision sight modifications.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...57784_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Is this the same? The product description claims it's dual aperature, and being a M4 sight in the "cut down" mode, it's a clamp on?

Can you flip it, and would a different precision aperature sight be better? It's not a high precision shooter, but tailored ammo and a good scope would be dollars per MOA better than spendy rear sights anyway.

 

[Jimro]

The standard A2 sights two Aperture's are not designed for day and night, but rather for 0-200 yards and 300 yards and beyond. Of course, it is true that a larger aperture is easier to use in low light conditions, but in dim light it is doubtful you would be engaging targets at 300 plus yards anyway. On an A2 rear sight, there is a POI shift between the small and large apertures.

Not quite right, but close. The standard apeture is about 0.070 inches and the 0-2 larger apeture is about 0.200 inches.

The field manual for M16A1 and M16A2 Rifle Marksmanship states, “The larger aperture, marked 0-2, is used for moving target engagement and during limited visibility. The unmarked aperture is used for normal firing situations, zeroing and with the elevation knob for target distances up to 800 meters. The unmarked aperture is used to establish the battlesight zero.”

When you flip from the normal apeture to the 0-2 apeture your zero should drop about 2.5 minutes to reflect a 200 meter zero, hence the 0-2 marking for fighting in limited visibility or against fast movers.

So it is a "day sight" for normal operations, and as we like to call "night" in the Army "Periods of Limited Visibility."

Jimro

 

[chris in va]

Fill the aperture with JB weld and then redrill the hole to the diameter of your liking. If you do a clean job it well be darn near invisible.

Good idea, thanks. I was even thinking of a thin piece of aluminum glued on.

I don't know if it's just due to the carbine length, but the sight aperture is just too big to allow the target and front sight to be in focus like with my Garand.

And yes...I'm using the 'day' aperture.

 

[madcratebuilder]

I don't know if it's just due to the carbine length, but the sight aperture is just too big to allow the target and front sight to be in focus like with my Garand.

The short barrel is part of it. The smaller the aperture the larger the depth of field.

 

[DMK]

I don't know if it's just due to the carbine length, but the sight aperture is just too big to allow the target and front sight to be in focus like with my Garand.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding but that statement sounds odd to me.

You should be basically ignoring the rear sight and your focus should be on the top edge of the front sight. The rear sight will "ghost" and be a fuzzy ring. Don't try to use it like a standard partridge sight.

That said, a "match" rear aperture will be smaller and some have replacement apertures you can screw in.

Changing out the rear aperture is not difficult and they are relatively cheap. Keep in mind that the A2 sight has the small aperture and lager "ghost ring", the A1 sight has two small apertures. Both have the two elevations heights that Jimro described (though the actual elevation changes are slightly different for the two styles)

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Bro...ategoryString=10636***10560***8807***11619***

http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/Schematics~AR15?cm_sp=SEO-_-AR15-_-Schematics

 

[MLeake]

Thanks, JimRo, I was taught by the instructors at Fort Jackson that the small aperture was for day, and the large for night.

The markings do sometimes indicate distance, as roklok said, but I was taught to either use the small aperture in daytime, or else at very close ranges just look over the sights (kind of like an Ayoob flash-picture, but with a rifle).

Luckily, never had to test that method.

 

[DMK]

The field manual for M16A1 and M16A2 Rifle Marksmanship states, “The larger aperture, marked 0-2, is used for moving target engagement and during limited visibility. The unmarked aperture is used for normal firing situations, zeroing and with the elevation knob for target distances up to 800 meters. The unmarked aperture is used to establish the battlesight zero.”

When you flip from the normal apeture to the 0-2 apeture your zero should drop about 2.5 minutes to reflect a 200 meter zero, hence the 0-2 marking for fighting in limited visibility or against fast movers.

That's the way the military does it, but not the only way.

I zero my smaller "long range" aperture at 200 meters (crosses over at 50 yards). With the flat .223 trajectory that's +/- 2" all the way out from point blank to nearly 250 meters. That should be more than adequate for anything I envision using the rifle for.

I can flip to the 0-200 "Ghost ring" for anything from point blank to 100 yards or so, for quick acquisition. Frankly, if it's low light or foggy, I'm using my red dot (which is co-witnessed and zeroed at 250m).

 

[chris in va]

Thanks for the link DMK. If the aluminum trick doesn't work, I'll pick up one of those DPMS apertures.

One of the reviewers said it best...

With the standard sight I was unable to make out the 6" bull at 100 yds, it was way to blurry, put this sight in, and it made a world of difference, I could now see the bull. The fact that it still has the option to flip to the ghost ring for close range, quick sight acquisition, make this sight perfect for me.

 

[DMK]

If you have bad eyesight a smaller aperture can slightly improve your vision. This is another reason I like aperture sights much more than partridge sights.

There are actually shooter apertures that you can stick on your glasses (I believe mainly for handgun shooting) to make the sights on the gun appear sharper.

 

[Jimro]

DMK,

That's the way the military does it, but not the only way.

I zero my smaller "long range" aperture at 250 meters (crosses over at 50 yards). With the flat .223 trajectory that's +/- 2" all the way out from point blank to nearly 300 meters. That should be more than adequate for anything I envision using the rifle for.

I can flip to the 0-200 "Ghost ring" for anything from point blank to 100 yards or so, for quick acquisition. Frankly, if it's low light or foggy, I'm using my red dot (which is co-witnessed and zeroed at 250m).

Frankly you are using something quite similar to the M16A1 zero, a battlesight zero of 250 meters. Although the "cross the line of sight" happens at 25 meters instead of 50 with 55 gr M193 ammunition.

Also, I really want to know what load you are using that is +2/-2 out to 300, because those numbers seem suspect to me.

This is another reason I like aperture sights much more than partridge sights.

Patridge not "partridge." I know it's nit picking, please forgive me.

Jimro

 

[southwind]

Just buy an A2 NM sight and pic your aperture. I use a .040 for x-course

 

[Jim243]

Chris

Do you wear presciption eye glasses? Bi-focal or Tri-focal?

Jim


Chris

Here is a $13.00 plus freight solution.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=703718&cm_vc=S014

Michael Ryan of Bullard, TXDate posted: 8/17/2010With the standard sight I was unable to make out the 6" bull at 100 yds, it was way to blurry, put this sight in, and it made a world of difference, I could now see the bull. The fact that it still has the option to flip to the ghost ring for close range, quick sight acquisition, make this sight perfect for me.

Jim

 

[Tbag]

Buy a tiny rubber grommet as sold at Lowes, and stuff it in the hole.

 

[DMK]

Frankly you are using something quite similar to the M16A1 zero, a battlesight zero of 250 meters. Although the "cross the line of sight" happens at 25 meters instead of 50 with 55 gr M193 ammunition.

Also, I really want to know what load you are using that is +2/-2 out to 300, because those numbers seem suspect to me.

Actually what I'm using is Col. Chuck Santose' Improved Battle Zero. Google Santose Improved Battle Zero and you'll see a bunch of pages about it.

The PDF file below explains it very well:

http://grburnett.us/guns/ImprovedBattlesightZero.pdf

And I'm sorry, it's a 200m zero so it's +/- 2" out to 250m, not 300 like I said above.

This zero takes advantage of the 5.56/223 flat ballistics, unlike the military zeros which have a very rainbow like trajectory in an effort to get more range.

I shoot 55gr M193 5.56 mostly, with heavier bullets like 75gr, you will generally get a bit more drop

Patridge not "partridge." I know it's nit picking, please forgive me.

No apology necessary, you are absolutely right.