Ar-15, traditional to folding stock swap?

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281 Quad Cam

New member
im thinkin about giving in and buying an Ar-15... looking at an olympic arms model with the 16 inch barrel, yet the full size "a2" stock... How hard would it be to get, and install a collapsable butt-stock onto the rifle? There is a major price differences between the model im considering, and the model that comes with a collapsable stock.

Also, any word on the quality of olympic arms AR's?
 
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yorec

New member
A really easy swap and one that makes sense too... But illegal as all get out as Bastiat hinted toward if the the gun isn't a preban.

Evil law, not an evil gun. :mad:
 
2

281 Quad Cam

New member
OK... ive decided to stretch for the rifle with the telescoping stock from tha factory... what on the quality of these things, as it obviously pales in comparison to bushmaster and colt...

also... ive never dealt with shipping from another state, how does this work? i pay the person via money order, than have to pay an FFL dealer as well? what is stopping an FFL dealer from withholding the thing for no good reason... im nervous about the whole issue - but cant find anything resembling a resonable price on an AR in South Florida! (under $1,000)
 
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USMCsilver

New member
You are not going to find a pre-ban rifle anywhere for under $1000.00. Okay, it can be done, but good freakin' luck.

I hope that you know the difference from a pre-ban, and post ban rifle. I won't go into that until you answer that question.

As far as FFLs go, you pay for the gun over the 'net with a USPS MO. Then, you have your FFL ship a copy of his license to the person you bought the rifle from. He then receives the FFL and ships the rifle to your FFL. You go to your FFL and, pay the $20 or so transfer fee, and you take possession of your new toy.
 
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bosifus

New member
How exactly do the Olympic rifles pale in comparison to Bushy's or Colts? I just bought an Olympic preban and have only been to the range twice with it (it's only been a week) but as far as I can tell it's a great litltle rifle. Just wondering how your basing your opinion as I have only fired and owned the Olympic.

Also there are some serious deals out there right now at your local gun shows. It's a serious buyers market.

Good luck!
 
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USMCsilver

New member
Bosifus, some will tell you Oly Arms suck, some will say they are up there with with the others.

I have a pre-ban Oly, post Bushy, post Cav Arms. All are fine and I even put the LPK in the Oly and Cav (Oly had been assembled into rifle, but someone wanted to keep their little parts. Beats me!)

Anyway, IMHO, as long as it is not a Hesse, then you are okay. And as far as gun shows go -- I beg to differ. I was at one this past weekend and the pre-ban AR-15 dealers where strung out on their crack rocks like usual.

However, I was glad to see that there wasn't a price hike on the post bans due to the sniper's choice of weapon.
 
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USMCsilver

New member
281 Quad Cam -- OK... ive decided to stretch for the rifle with the telescoping stock from tha factory... what on the quality of these things, as it obviously pales in comparison to bushmaster and colt...
Click to expand...

Umm, "from the factory"? :confused: The only way you can get an AR-15 with the features you request straight from the factory is if it is a LEO Only model.

I would like to direct you to http://old.ar15.com and suggest that you look at the serial number list concerning pre-ban rifles from all makers. The site is down right now, but when it comes back up, check it out.

A pre-ban rifle is one which was assembled and sold as a complete rifle before the "Assault Weapons Ban of '94".

This ban made it illegal to possess a post ban rifle with more than 2 of the following charictaristics:

  • Flash suppressor/grenade launcher
    Pistol grip
    Ability to accept removable magazines
    Collapsible stock
    Bayonet lug

A post ban AR-15 has the pistol grip and magazine well and therefore is not defined as an "assault" weapon.

A pre-ban has 3 or more of those features and, to make it legal, was assembled before the '94 ban.
 
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bosifus

New member
I must have been in the right place at the right time then as I bought mine at the WAC show in WA this past weekend. I will say that the price was a suprise but a good one when I asked the seller what he wanted for it. I think alot of it might have to do with the economy here in WA. From what I have read unemployment is highest here in the nation.

At any rate I was actually looking for a post ban but kinda stumbled onto this one. All told I paid 900 with 5 30 rnd mags, nice nylon carry case that holds all my mags, cleaning kit etc. The rifle is a CAR-AR (the upper and lower match) so it's got the 11.5 barrel with the humungoid suppressor but so far as I can see it's really not bad out to 100 yrds. That definately suprised me as I expected alot worse from a short barreled rifle. Not that the velocity would be that great at that range but it punches holes through paper consistently. :)

I guess I'm not too critical when it comes to my rifles. As far as I am concerned as long as they do what they advertise I could care less about fit and finish. I like to put alot of rounds down range and as long as they hit what I aim at I am pleased.

Regards.
 
2

281 Quad Cam

New member
Alright... i understand the differences between pre-ban, and post-ban... but what about this ->

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=6055207

Flash supressor, pistol grip, retractable stock, detatchable box magazine that can accept Hi-caps, and... well i dont see a bayonet lug, but thats about the only thing missing.

and an internet explorer "find (on this page)" returned no words such as "pre, ban, or pre-ban" so what does this mean? they couldnt picture this rifle and than send a full stock, with a 10 round internal mag, could they?
 
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USMCsilver

New member
LOL, ahh, fooled by the M4gery, are you. (M4 forgery)

That is a fake telestock. It looks like a real collapsible stock, but it is fixed in that position for legality's sake.

The thing you referred to as a flash suppressor is actually a post-ban muzzle brake. This reduces muzzle rise and is not needed on a .223 caliber weapon. Also, it makes the rifle extremely loud.

And, to answer the question about the bayonet lug -- you are correct, it does not have one because it is a post-ban rifle.

See, if all you want is looks, then this rifle would be fine. I would prefer an A3 (flat top) with a removable carry handle, but hey, that's me.

Does my reply help?

EDITED: Here's an idea on the average price of the pre-ban lower receiver -- CLICK HERE!
 
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yorec

New member
Glad you were cognizant enough to do a little research and find out the difference. Even then you got a little confused at the appearace in an add...

This kind of confusion is unacceptable, but will continue to happen so long as the ban exists. And many innocents will buy illegal weapons or place illegal uppers/parts on thier legal weapons afterward making them instant felons. All unknowing of what they do.

Research carefully, knowing that a few ounces of metal that do nothing but change the rifles appearace and can cause a world of trouble.

Like I said... Evil law, not evil guns.
 
2

281 Quad Cam

New member
yes, your post was helpful, im beginning to get a greater understanding on the whole issue... but here is something - if it is illegal to buy a gun with an AR lower with collapsable stock, than how can they legally sell the AR lower by itself, is that with the understanding it wont be put on a gun?

What is to stop me from buying any of the many pre-ban lowers on the internet, and slapping on an upper also from the internet, and building my own weapon? is that legal?

Im ready to give up and just get an M16a2 style AR with a 20 inch barrel and full stock, b/c in my opinion nothing looks as silly as a 16 inch barrel and a full stock... and yet nothing looks as cheap as an obviously fake telescoping stock which probly has plastic "molding lines" on it.

and if i may go off topic, and im sure this has been brought up on this forum many times, why would retractable stocks be illegal, when any felon could simply remove the entire stock using common tools.
 
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johnwill

New member
If the lower was assembled into a complete weapon prior to the '94 Crime Bill, then it's a grandfathered "assault weapon", and can be assembled in a pre-ban configuration. The trick is proving that this is the case. :rolleyes:
 
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AR-10

New member
There are two ways for to buy an AR with functioning telestock.

Qualify for the Law Enforcement exemption.

Purchase a preban.

There are several ways to buy a preban. The safest way is to buy a "papered" complete rifle, such as a Bushmaster with a letter from the factory stating that it is a certified preban. The least safe would be to buy a completely stripped lower with no verifiable history other than a serial number that looks like it might qualify, maybe. Half a dozen variations in between those two scenarios. All legal. Some safer than others.

As for why telestocks are an evil banned feature...because.
Just because.

Your thought on criminals removing the entire stock has a flaw. The buffer tube. It would still be there if you removed the stock. The buffer tube is nearly as long as the stock. Same tube with a fixed telestock. The buffer tube on a rifle with a collapsing telestock is shorter, but it's still there when you remove the telestock.

One other thing to be carefull of if you buy used. M-16 parts in the lower receiver. Look a lot like AR parts, function the same. Instant Felony.
 
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MessedUpMike

New member
Telestocks are illegal because the "Assault Rifle Ban" is stupid. The telestock on a CAR only shrinks it to 7 or 7 1/2 inches. The RRA entry stcok is 7 inches and completely legal, telestocks were banned for being scary looking (to people who don't know better).
That being said I own an CAR-97 with the pinned telestock, it is in fact a real telestock, bit with 3 rollpins stuck in it so tah you can't slide it in. It's also missing the 50 cent spring in the stock latch, but if you can't find that in a hardware store something's wrong. If the sunset passes I'll be joining the thousands of gun owners first thing in the morning exorcising my otherwsie perfect Oly back to it's full glory, if not at least it's not a completely "fake" telestock. Bushmaster on the other hand is a true one piece stock made to look collapsable.
Other than that my Oly has performed flawlessly. It's not a pretty as a Bushy, or a Colt, but I got mine here in TPRMd, for $750 final. Magwell was a little tight and it got grumpy about non-USGI aftermarket mags, but get good mags and the gun works fine. I'be got a buddy who has a Bushy, and we've shot them side by side and the Bushy hasn't proven to be any better a gun except a (very) little prettier. But like I always say when people rag on CZs what are you buying a gun or an Art Piece?


Good Luck
Mike


PS another good source on information is the Md AR 15 Shooters Site
www.Md-AR15.com
 
2

281 Quad Cam

New member
Thanks for all the helpfull information you've provided me with, after hearing that the stock on the CAR97 is real and pinned in place, I've decided to go with it for 2 reasons. the flash supressor, while doing nothing for flash supression is better looking than a bare end barrel, and also, the stock is the real deal, even if not functioning. I would only opt to fire with it out, and so its actual function plays less of a role than looks here.

I'll be ordering it from AtlanticFirearms.com soon as i pin down a local FFL to ship it to... thanks again everyone - this truely is "the leading online forum for firarms enthusiasts." :p
 
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dustindu4

New member
I DOES NOT have a flash suppressor, it has a MUZZLE BREAK. Go ahead and get it but I'm telling you from my experience you will be sorry you got it.
 
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USMCsilver

New member
dustindu4 -- I DOES NOT have a flash suppressor, it has a MUZZLE BREAK. Go ahead and get it but I'm telling you from my experience you will be sorry you got it.
Click to expand...

Umm, that is a "muzzle brAKE.

Anyway, I agree that you will hate it.

My first AR I bought was a Y2K Bushmaster that had an AK style brake on it. I put either 20 or 40 rounds through it, took it home, put it up for trade, and got a plain barrelled AR-15.

Those things are obnoxiously loud. I figured it would be kinda like my old M-16 -- WRONG! And if you think it is loud, wait until the guy next to you hears it. You'll be lucky if he doens't kick your ass for screwing up his hearing.

Another problem with that brake is that it is welded on (if I remember correctly). With that, well, that's bad. If for some odd reason you have to take off the front sight, then you are screwed. Or, what if you want to add a free floating hand guard with a picatinny gas block? Well, you can't do it when you have a welded on brake.

I hate to burst your bubble because it sounded like you were set on that gun, but it is something to STRONGLY consider. I just don't want to see someone new to the AR get one and not know what he is getting into right off the bat.

If you can, I suggest you try to shoot a braked AR-15 and then decide if you still want one.

Or, better yet, shoot a handgun that is ported. Then, multiply by 5 and you will feel my pain.
 
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