AR-15 Pistol in .300 Blackout as car gun?

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Gary L. Griffiths

New member
With the recent ATF ruling removing restrictions on "arm braces," I'm contemplating an AR-15 pistol in .300 Blackout to replace my current AR-15 as a "car gun." My main use for it would be as a defensive weapon against a "Reginald Denny" type situation should I inadvertently drive into a situation involving multiple attackers. Would not need rifle capabilities, as I don't anticipate having to counter sniper fire! ;)

I'm currently looking at a Radical Firearms .300 BLACKOUT 8.5 in. Pistol w/ SB15 Brace, which I can get for around $550. Has anyone had any experience with this company, good or bad? Is there anything better out there it the $500-$800 range?

Finally, since the .300 Blackout has the same OAL as the 5.56mm, I'm assuming it'll feed properly through regular 20- and 30-rd AR-15 mags. I have Lancer Warfighter and MagPul magazines. Should I be looking at anything else?

Thanks!
 
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carguychris

New member
Allow me to offer a couple of thoughts, although they don't directly address the question.
  • Is this intended to be your ONLY car gun, or will it supplant a more traditional handgun? I wouldn't use an AR pistol as my ONLY car gun because I consider them too awkward to use against an attacker coming through a door, liftgate, or side window. I find this scenario a good deal more likely than having to repel multiple attackers at standoff distance after I've exited the vehicle. (I know of someone who had to use a pistol to thwart a carjacking; he had to shoot someone who was grappling with him through the driver's side window, and then a person who was opening the front passenger door. I can't imagine successfully doing this with an AR pistol!)
  • Just for the sake of argument, some bullpup rifles like a Tavor or FN PS90 are only a bit longer or even a bit shorter than a pistol-length AR with a SIG brace, which usually measure ~24"-28" OAL depending on barrel length and muzzle device. (I can't find specs for a Radical 8.5" .330 BLK pistol online.) I will concede, however, that they're also a good deal more expensive new.
 
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CDR_Glock

New member
But the Tavor isn't allowed to be carried in a vehicle loaded. At least where I'm from.


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Overkill777

New member
I don't get the concept of a car gun. In order for it to be somewhat secure, it has to go in the trunk. If you have time to get in your trunk to get a gun, you probably have time to get in your car and get away.

The thing is, in a self defense situation, you won't have time. You will be left with what is on your body or immediately accessible.
 
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JoeSixpack

New member
I think I see where the OP is going.. I could see that being a versatile little gun in the right situation.

For me at least I think I'd rather have the mini Draco or maybe Kel-tec plr16.
toss a single point sling on it.

I personally don't have a "car gun" although I toyed with the idea of getting a maverick 88 to toss in the trunk.. just in case. they're cheap enough I wouldn't have to worry about it staying in the car.

But otherwise my carry pistol is always with me where legal.
 
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Gary L. Griffiths

New member
Is this intended to be your ONLY car gun, or will it supplant a more traditional handgun?
Click to expand...
It will supplement my .45 XDs or XDm. Not depending on it as my primary defensive weapon; but looking for enough backup firepower to take on multiple assailants if necessary. A couple of 6-rd or even 10-rd magazines of .45 may not carry the day.

Sure, the Tavor would be MUCH more desirable; but I can put a Radical AR-15 in each of my three vehicles for less than one Tavor would cost. :eek:

Appreciate the responses! :cool:
 
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raimius

New member
I can't speak to the particular brand/model, but an 8-9in barrel AR with a brace is a very capable firearm out to 200+ meters. If you run 110-125gn supersonic loads, they are almost in the 7.62x39mm's ballistic performance-wise. The big benefit I see vs an AK is improved ergonomics, optics mounting, and accessories.

I SBRed my 9in Sig. Some of the Rem 220gn subsonics wouldn't cycle through my Pmags, but all the supersonics did fine (the subs are a little fatter close to the front, which can bind on Pmags). I grabbed some aluminum D&H .300blk mags, and everything through them has ran perfectly.
 
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khegglie

New member
I would hate to HAVE TO light off any round in the confines of my little car.
Would the black out round really attenuate a shot sound to any helpful degree in that setting?

If so it could be something to look at.....
 
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Ibmikey

New member
Raimius, Covers the short barreled AR well, I have two, 8.5" & 12.5" in 300 Blackout and they are just loads. Of fun to shoot. I do not have experience with Radical but built mine out of good components and they have not given me a single malfunction .
Would I carry it as a primary defensive weapon? No. I do not expect to place myself in the position where such heavy firepower would be required as my CC are for defensive purposes.
I shoot supersonic exclusively and have little use for a suppressor and normally load 125 - 150 gr bullets and carry in 20 Rd pmags.
 
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Siggy-06

New member
I dont like to leave firearms in my car. Only 1 has ever been broken into, luckily I don't leave anything important in them. A $500-600 AR is giving any car thief a lot of firepower.
I suggest avoiding driving through dangerous areas in the first place if possible(unless its your job). I recommend a Maverick 88 with a 8 round tube and a spare box of ammo. Cheap if it gets damaged or stolen, but it works great for self defense and has many types of different ammo per purpose. If people stick around after you fire off a round of 12 guage, they're either really out to get you personally, or are battle hardened combatants, both of which are unlikely.
 
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ShootistPRS

New member
OK, I am in my car and the wife or girlfriend or a buddy is with me.
If I have to use a gun I don't want hot brass flying all over the place. I want a gun I can maneuver easily. I don't see how an AR pistol is going to meet my needs. It may "sound" cool to have an AR pistol in the car but go out to your car and try it. There is a lot less room than you think. Hot brass bouncing off the windshield and going down your girlfriend's blouse is just going to add more turmoil to an already tense situation.

Always test your ideas in real life so you can decide if it is as good as you thought it would be. This is not to say you should perform live fire exercises from your car but rather go through the motions with an empty gun.
 
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Glenn E. Meyer

New member
I'm not getting this. The OP speaks to limited capacity in the handguns. It's not hard to carry a G19 or M&P with many more rounds. 9mm is really good nowadays.

I also like the point that deploying an AR pistol in a car will be a pain. Having taken some classes where we drove and shot a handgun or fired from inside the car through windshields or side windows, I can't see doing it with the AR pistol.

Is the idea to ditch the car? Then we get the whole problem of firing into a crowd.

If the gun isn't next to you, it's not that useful. A higher capacity handgun can take on multiple folks.
 
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Cosmodragoon

New member
I don't get the concept of a car gun. In order for it to be somewhat secure, it has to go in the trunk. If you have time to get in your trunk to get a gun, you probably have time to get in your car and get away.

The thing is, in a self defense situation, you won't have time. You will be left with what is on your body or immediately accessible.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking about this today. I spend a lot of time in the car. I typically shoulder carry in jacket weather, which is the better part of three seasons up here. The problem comes when I'm not. In hot weather or when various circumstances prevent me from shoulder-carrying (including haste or laziness on short trips) then I'm usually carrying on my belt or in my pocket. (The LCR in a pocket holster is just so darn easy to carry that it's hard not to!)

So what happens if that rare and dangerous situation happens on one of those days? If anyone here hasn't tried practice drills from seated positions, with seat belts, armrests, etc., then you should. It can be a real eyeopener. Then imagine doing that with the vehicle deformed from an impact! So I got to thinking. Is there a way that I could reasonably store a full-sized service pistol, out of sight but within arm's reach?

I don't know yet because I haven't done the research. This should help with the concept though. ;)
 
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JoeSixpack

New member
That's a good question.. what is a "car gun" I think we could almost have a thread on that alone.

When I think "car gun" I think of a gun that's not going to primarily used.. IN THE CAR, But rather one that lives in the car.

EX: I had toyed with the idea of putting Maverick 88 in the trunk, a couple shell belts with various loads, I hear they even have flare rounds for 12ga, though never tried them which could be handy.. some canned food, water, etc

If something really awful happen and could not get home I'd have a long gun for protection along with my carry gun.

In that situation I think a AR pistol might not be a bad idea. sure it's not a rifle but put a red dot on it and a single point sling and you might be able to conceal it with a large coat, That is why I said earlier instead of the AR pistol I'd rather have a mini draco or keltec PLR16, no buffer tube sticking out.

You'd have a lot of firepower in a small package while still large enough to reach out much further than your hand gun will, Could be quite the nasty critter with a red dot on top.

Now if we're talking about a gun you use in the car.. like a anti-carjack gun.
Im thinking ar pistol would be a bad choice.. a handgun in a cross draw or shoulder holster.. OR tucked between the seats or a 2nd holster under the dash would be a good way to go.

But If I had to pick something a little more exotic then your usual carry gun for that role then I think perhaps a Taurus Judge might make for a nasty up close gun.
 
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FrankenMauser

New member
I have a 7.5" AR pistol chambered for .223/5.56. (Have a Sig SB15 brace -- don't use it.)
There is no way that I could get that thing out of "hiding" and into service fast enough to address a situation like what you're describing/inferring.
It's too long, too bulky, and too snag-prone.

I have had it available, sitting on the seat next to me, while cruising between hunting spots on deer hunts, or trolling for predators. It's just too difficult to get into action quickly enough to be useful (even when already on the seat, and with only a 20-round magazine!).
In reality, it would likely be used against me, rather than by me.

I'd rather have my Ruger P95 with a few spare mags (15-round).
(Feel free to mentally replace "Ruger P95" with Hi-Power, Glock, Sig, H&K, whatever...)

Honestly... I'd be willing to take my chances with just 6 rounds in my LCR, before reaching for the AR pistol (no "arm brace" - regardless of brand - it just adds bulk and 'snaggability').

My AR pistol, which is even shorter than the .300 BLK described, is just the wrong tool for the job -- in ALL of my vehicles (probably even the riding lawnmower).
 
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Bill DeShivs

New member
It all depends on what you need your "car gun" for.
During my career in Memphis, I carried an Iver Johnson Enforcer (.30 carbine) pistol. My full time job was downtown. I worked for the government, working 24/7 shift work. Memphis is a powder keg and riots could have started at any time, not to mention the crime. I was also a part-time jeweler who traveled selling and delivering fine jewelry. If I was ever robbed, it would be while I was in the car, on the road.
I carried a sidearm, but wanted firepower for multiple assailants and/or if I had to take out a car.
 
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Gary L. Griffiths

New member
Some good valid points made in this thread. Some others, not so much! ;)

FWIW, here are my thoughts on the .300 Blackout AR Pistol as car gun:

In today's climate of frequent cases of anarchy, I'm not comfortable with relying solely on a concealable handgun for defense. My "serious social occasions" gun is a Springfield XDm .45 with Viridian C5L laser/light mounted. In a sudden attack on the road (e.g., carjacking) it would be quick to deploy and have adequate stopping power and capacity for one or a few assailants.

My SHTF "car gun" currently is a rather expensive and bulky AR-15 carbine with 1-6X scope. It fits in a 36" case, very unobtrusively, on the floor of my van between the back seats. It is not terribly easy to deploy, but has excellent accuracy out to 500 yds or so. Of course, it is hard to visualize needing to engage assailants at 500 yds in any kind of reasonable SD situation...

An AR pistol in .300 Blk would fit in a 24" case, taking up 1/3 less room, and being that much easier to deploy. With a folding buffer tube-arm brace, it would fit in an 18" case, taking only a second or so longer to deploy.

Sure, a 9mm hi-cap pistol can fire just as quickly and hold as many rounds as an AR, but it's still just a pistol. If trapped by a hostile crowd, it won't be as intimidating as an AR pistol, which closely resembles a submachine gun. The goal is to extricate myself and family from the situation, not kill a bunch of people unless absolutely necessary.

The AR pistol, using the arm brace against the shoulder (as is now legal) is considerably more accurate than a conventional pistol. If necessary to fire on an armed assailant in a crowd, it is far less likely to inflict collateral damage.

The .300 Blk is a far better cartridge for a short barrel than the .223/5.56, even though it's more expensive. However, I don't intend to use this gun as a range toy. I would fire only perhaps a box a year of premium factory ammunition, maintaining proficiency by firing handloads that approximate the factory rounds' ballistics.

My thoughts on the topic. YMMV. :D
 
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Ibmikey

New member
Gary, My 8.5" barrel 300 Blackout pistol is 27" in length with a KAC brace fixed to the tube, could slide it forward approximately two more inches if desired. I reload supersonic ammunition and plink with my pistol continuously. Your idea of shooting a box of ammo once a year is not sound when handling and shooting this weapon is not quite the same as a standard AR, reloads are easy to do and as long as the brass is saved relatively inexpensive.
Also with the short barrel it is a good idea to place a sling swivel or other appendage to keep your support hand from the muzzle. ( No vertical fore grips)
The AR pistol can be a fun shooter and I put hundreds of rounds through mine each year.
 
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