AR-15 chambering for elk size game? 300 ossm?

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stagpanther

New member
I have a 458 socom AR15--it is about as much power as I feel comfortable firing out of the lightweight AR 15 platform. I've been intrigued by the 375 socom as well. I can highly recommend buying either of the two through Tromix.
 
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taylorce1

New member
Scorch said:
300 OSSM (300 Olympic Super Short Magnum) is an AR-10 cartridge. 
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Not quite, the .300 OSSM is an AR15 cartridge based off the WSSM cartridge. However, I think the OSSM was over hyped and under delivered. I really don't follow AR15 cartridge designs much, but what I read on the OSSM they were often claiming "near .300 WM velocites." I think in reality the cartridge probably produced realistic velocities between .300 Savage and .308 Win.

44 AMP first brought up the .30 Rem AR, and I believe it's a much better balanced cartridge vs the .350 Legend and .458 SOCOM. Way better bullet options, that'll give you better BC. Better BC gives you more velocity, energy, and terminal performance at longer ranges than the Legend and SOCOM. Plus for the moment factory ammunition[is still available for fairly reasonable prices online for around $1.80-2.00 per round.

Just for discussion:

.30 RAR zeroed ay 100 yds using a 150 grain SP bullet with a MV of 2500 fps drops 19" at 300 yards, is nearly 1800 fps, and has 1000 lb-ft of energy.

.30 RAR zeroed at 100 yds using 130 grain TTSX bullet with a MV of 2800 fps drops 14" at 300 yds, with 2000 fps velocity, and 1200 lb-ft of energy.

.458 SOCOM zeroed at 100 yds using 250 grain Mono Flex with a MV of 2100 fps drops 42" at 300 yds, going 1080 fps, with 650 lb-ft of energy.

.458 SOCOM zeroed at 100 yds using 325 grain FTX with a MV of 1860 fps drops 46" at 300 yards, going 1100 fps, with nearly 900 lb-ft of energy.


Now the .375 SOCOM stagpanther mentioned looks interesting, falling between the .458 and .30 RAR for drop and velocity, and pretty closely matching or beating the RAR in energy at 300 yards. However, for shoot ability I think the .30 RAR will still win in the end. All three are suitible but more limiting to the the shooter than the traditionally thought of cartridges for elk.
 
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taylorce1

New member
stagpanther said:
It's great--except it no longer exists, so there is that minor inconvenience
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Rifles still exist and so does factory ammunition, it's an AR you can just build one if you have to. Plus to make any of these AR options affordable and usable long term a person will have to reload. Dies are available, brass can be found or made, bullets are still available, the big issue is powder and primers.


.30 RAR upper and magazine


Ammo 1, ammo 2, and ammo 3 in stock according to Ammoseek.

RCBS .30 RAR dies.

7.5X55 Swiss and .450 Bushmaster are the best options for making cases if you can't find enough Remington brass to keep your rifle shooting.
 
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stagpanther

New member
The main problem--if you want to call it that--is that remmie created a non-standard length cartridge that doesn't fit either the AR 15 or 10 lowers.
 
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Siggy-06

New member
A 143-160 grain 6.5 grendel should take an elk just fine. I’ve been reading a lot about 350 legend too and it sounds like a cartridge I’d like to sight in and try on a deer hunt later. People still hunt elk with a 30-30, just saying...
 
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Shadow9mm

New member
IMHO anything that is appropriate for elk, that will fit in a standard ar platform rifle, will have greatly reduced range. Get a basic bolt gun in something like 30-06 or 300mag. A good budget rifle will be in the same price range as the special upper, and give you adequate power and range.
 
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NWPilgrim

New member
Shadow9mm said:
IMHO anything that is appropriate for elk, that will fit in a standard ar platform rifle, will have greatly reduced range. Get a basic bolt gun in something like 30-06 or 300mag. A good budget rifle will be in the same price range as the special upper, and give you adequate power and range.
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Sound advice! The AR platform has cartridge size limitations that force a trade off in bullet weight and velocity. If you go this route then accept you are limiting yourself to probably 150, maybe 200 yds. Which in wooded areas may be adequate.

But using the same money to get a Savage, Ruger American, or other budget .30-06 or .308 or .270 or 7mag gives you much more flexibility. Now you have a rifle that will hit hard to 350 yds at least, and a huge selection of bullet weights and types. If you are hunting elk for the first time it would be wise to use the same chambering that experienced elk hunters in that area use. They have learned what works for the size of game and terrain likely to be encountered.
 
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HiBC

New member
The OP has mentioned more than once he has a .308 bolt rifle.
He also explained he was "just musing"

I'm not an "Anti-EBR for hunting" guy. I'm comfortable seeing them in the field.
P-14's,P-17's,SMLE's,Krags,Springfields and Mausers at one time were advanced weapons of war.

And I'm sure,back then,there were the folks who used HiWalls and Sharps,Stevens,and Rolling Blocks and the various lever actions who had a xenophobic streak and detested those horrid bolt rifles. Shooters an be slow to evolve. And,there is nothing wrong with sticking with what you have.

I know someone who does everything from prairie dogs to elk and long range steel shooting with his AR-10.Its a .308 He has an Armalite made 300 RemUltra Short Mag upper he can pin on.

He can shoot them. I've asked him why he carries that heavy pig when he shoots at (and sometimes hits!!) 2 MOA steel triangles at 900 yds. The law limits him to a 5 rd mag anyway. He could easily carry a 7lb bolt rifle. Follow up shots are typically a moot point. He just does things his way. I let it go.

A trim bolt gun can be as light or lighter and less cumbersome than even an AR-15.

Just due to its real estate,the AR-15 is limited . Some cartridges would make do. I do not doubt a 6.5 Grendel will take elk if you are a good elk hunter.

So will a yew wood recurve bow or a 50 cal flintlock. Folks have their reasons.

Elk hunting for me is a time I use my Best boots,not sneakers. I take my best knives, I use my fine binoculars...I don't get more satisfaction out of a dubious $50 "tactical monocular"

For myself, the latest iteration of "elk rifle build" is around a very pristine 98/09 Argentine receiver I had in stash. I got a buy on a fairly light profile pre-thread/prechambered Lothar Walther barrel. It fits very well in the threads.I went exotic on the cartridge...30-06!! Gentry side swing M=70 type safety. Timney trigger. I faced the reciever square on a mandrel. I have a commercial Mauser scope bolt. Also a commercial Mauser steel hinged floorplate 30-06 length mag box. And my last Garrett Accra Lite foam core fiber glass and Kevlar stock blank. Its an M-70 fwt pattern.

If I get around to it while they are available,the Leupold M-8 6X by 42 MM scope is a favorite of mine. I predict someplace between 7 1/2 and 8 lbs with the scope..

IMO,thats a classic elk rifle. I doubt I'll ever carry it elk hunting.I don't know my heart would hold up to elk hunting these days. But I suspect my Grandson will have a fine elk rifle.

And IMO,there is nothing that can be built an an AR-15 receiver that can compare for elk hunting.

Mehavey:

I cannot answer for the OP.

Asked . . . but I believe not yet answered:
"...at what ranges..." is the OP looking for ?
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In my experience,ranges can be as close as 10 yards to as far as you think you can responsibly place a shot. Elk hunting covers a variety of terrain.Oak brush to aspens,Doghair timber to open meadows to cross canyons. Beaver bottoms to tangled blow downs.Maybe even in one season.

IMO,thats why some folks gear up for the 1% or 5% shot. A long range magnum for the imaginary 6 point bull in the open meadow 500 yds away or more.
But I'm thinking a 300 yd rifle covers 95% plus, and a 308 will do that.
 
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jmr40

New member
IMO either the 6.5 Grendel or one of the 6.8's is the best option for bigger game if it has to be on an AR15 platform. People have been killing elk to elephant with the 6.5X55 since the 1890's. The smaller case size means lighter bullets, but todays modern bullets perform better than what they had in the 1890's.

And enough have done it at ranges out to 200-300 yards with the smaller cartridges to prove it can be done. I'd personally feel better with a bolt gun with something like 6.5CM, 7-08, or 308 as a minimum. But it can certainly be done with a 6.5 Grendel.
 
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HiBC

New member
Post 11 the OP advises he has never hunted elk in response to my statement "I don't know how you hunt elk"

Its hard to answer your question with no elk hunting experience.
 
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Pistoler0

New member
mehavey said:
Still waiting to hear the OP's operating range desires.....
;)


(did I miss it somewhere?)
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Weeell, I want the max! :p

Naah, say point blank range, around 240-260 yds depending on cartridge.
The AR-15 platform is brand new to me and I am curious about its capabilities since it is so modular and versatile.

Let me explain the reason for my curiosity, I get the feeling it may be annoying some who are experienced rifle shooters:

I get many questions, when talking to friends and acquaintances, of the "what is the AR-15 good for?" sort. Many of them have an anti-gun tilt but hunting seems to be a legitimate use of firearms in their eyes.

I am a believer in 2A but many people that I know and that I care about are not so much, and I know better than to argue to change people's minds. But educating them about how the AR-15 can have many uses aside from self defense, helps me make them realize that firearms are tools that are way more versatile than people usually realize. I've told people repeatedly that the AR is very useful when hunting pigs, varmints, predators, etc.

The .223 is not legal for hunting big game in Colorado. Many antis in Colorado know this. Thus my original OP, just for educational purposes (mine and those who I deal with), are there AR-15 chamberings that are adequate for deer and elk?

And I understand that deer and elk are different, and it seems that 6.5 grendel is adequate for deer. But Colorado mule deer are bigger, can be 330 lbs on average and grow bigger, so I phrased the question around elk.

But as already stated I have never hunted elk and I'd use my .308 for that.
 
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HiBC

New member
Pistolero: OK,after a stroll round the barn,its not really about hunting elk with an AR.
Its about the illusion firearms ownership is about hunting. Its not. As a matter of fact,hunting is not specifically protected by the Constitution.

If these Friends do not respect the Constitution...well,you make your own choices,but the burden of justification does not fall on you.
A Leader will stand strong for what he Believes in. A Follower well give up who he is and what he believes for acceptance and approval.

And the AR-15 does not need to be an elk rifle to justify itself.

The AR-15 is darned good for being ARMED.

Not too many places n the Constitution does it specifically say "The Right Of the People....

The 2a does not say "The Right of the Militia"

It says "The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed"

Don't get sucked into that hunting arguement B.S. Non hunting Vegan People have a RTKBA . They never need to shoot Bambi to justify it.

You can equate your AR-15 to a fire extinguisher.

Its sad the folks who have been gifted a life of Liberty take it so "for granted" they cannot conceive of losing it...though they CAN conceive of taking it from others."We,the elite have decided that YOU do not NEED an AR-15." WE will take it"
How are the 1st,2nd,4th,and 10th a doing these days? WE say YOU can't say that,or read that book...

There is one great value in first generation Naturalized Citizens.

They know what this Great Constitution and America is all about. And they are horrified by what is happening.

From George Orwell: " “That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

Carry on!
 
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jetinteriorguy

New member
HiBC said:
Pistolero: OK,after a stroll round the barn,its not really about hunting elk with an AR.
Its about the illusion firearms ownership is about hunting. Its not. As a matter of fact,hunting is not specifically protected by the Constitution.

If these Friends do not respect the Constitution...well,you make your own choices,but the burden of justification does not fall on you.
A Leader will stand strong for what he Believes in. A Follower well give up who he is and what he believes for acceptance and approval.

And the AR-15 does not need to be an elk rifle to justify itself.

The AR-15 is darned good for being ARMED.

Not too many places n the Constitution does it specifically say "The Right Of the People....

The 2a does not say "The Right of the Militia"

It says "The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed"

Don't get sucked into that hunting arguement B.S. Non hunting Vegan People have a RTKBA . They never need to shoot Bambi to justify it.

You can equate your AR-15 to a fire extinguisher.

Its sad the folks who have been gifted a life of Liberty take it so "for granted" they cannot conceive of losing it...though they CAN conceive of taking it from others."We,the elite have decided that YOU do not NEED an AR-15." WE will take it"

There is one great value in first generation Naturalized Citizens.

They know what this Great Constitution and America is all about. And they are horrified by what is happening.

From George Orwell: " “That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there.”

Carry on!
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This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read. Eloquently stated.
 
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taylorce1

New member
HiBC hits the nail on the head.

I remember having a similar discussion with a coworker who was democrat and seemed staunchly against firearms and believed in the Clinton era AWB. He knew I was an avid hunter and gun owner, and he heard me talking about a recent AR15 purchase I had made in 2006. He asked me what I was going to hunt that needed an AR15? I said simply "nothing". He then asked me why I needed an AR15? I could tell where this was going so I simply told him, "It's my right under the 2A, and I simply wanted it."

Well my former coworker has kind of seen the light. After one term of BO, he became a Libertarian. After the second term he and his wife both got handgun training and CCW permits. I talk with him still from time to time, and we even discuss guns in a more friendly manner, but he still doesn't own an AR.
 
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Pistoler0

New member
Ok so what I am gathering is that in addition to being darned good for being ARMED,

the AR-15 in 6.5 grendel is also good for hunting hogs and deer out to 300 yards or so.

And for elk, maybe in .350 Legend, .450 Bushmaster but within 200 yards?
Although for elk it would be better to use a more appropriate caliber .308 and up, which means a switch to AR10 if one wishes to stay with the AR pattern rifles for hunting big game.

And the 300 ossm that I mentioned in the OP was from 2011 and never went anywhere. : ( Pitty as the ballistics seemed similar to the 30-06.

The 300 HAM'R seems to be another interesting round in current production but ballistics only eek out the 300 Blackout.
 
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