Apathy and No Guns Signs
- Thread starter Bogie
- Start date
No matter what, your money is indirectly going to anti organizations. Watch TV? Go to the movies? Enjoy sports? That alone pretty much does it.
Instead, try to change the laws so you can legally ignore signs. Support open carry laws, laws to support Students for Concealed Carry.
Arguing and lecturing to some drone in a store who doesn't set policy anyway isn't going to accomplish a thing, except to make the manager aggravated with a "gun nut"
Instead, try to change the laws so you can legally ignore signs. Support open carry laws, laws to support Students for Concealed Carry.
Arguing and lecturing to some drone in a store who doesn't set policy anyway isn't going to accomplish a thing, except to make the manager aggravated with a "gun nut"
Kreyzhorse
New member
I live in Kentucky and while establishments can post "No Guns" signs, it is not illegal to carry into them. If caught carrying, the establishment has the right to ask you to leave. If you refuse, it is now trespassing and you can be arrested.
I do frequent stores that post these signs and while I don't agree with the posting, I do not mention it to the management. In my opinion, concealed is concealed and only a few people know I have my license and I plan on keeping that way.
I do frequent stores that post these signs and while I don't agree with the posting, I do not mention it to the management. In my opinion, concealed is concealed and only a few people know I have my license and I plan on keeping that way.
Here in SC the law is very specific on how the sign should look to be legal. If it is properly posted then you can be arrested without them asking you to leave or warning. The strange thing is the only places I have seen the proper signs banning carry is at the courthouse which is already covered by law so the sign is just redundant. The other place I have seen signs is at the hospital which is also covered but you can carry with permission. The signs at the hospital do not meet the requirements but it doesn't matter.
One thing that I do like about SC's laws is there is little room for the grey area. If a place is properly posted then they have the law on their side and no use arguing. If it isn't properly posted then it doesn't mean anything other than a request.
One thing that I do like about SC's laws is there is little room for the grey area. If a place is properly posted then they have the law on their side and no use arguing. If it isn't properly posted then it doesn't mean anything other than a request.
DesertDawg
New member
Several years ago, when I was a LEO (now retired), I was the only police unit available to respond to a "Robbery just occurred" radio call. I was working alone.
The location was a 7-11 convenience store, and I cautiously peered through the front windows before entering the store. As soon as the clerk saw me, he said "Please step outside". HUH? I was in full police uniform. I asked him if the store had been robbed, but he only repeated "Please step outside". That sent shivers up my spine, for it was possible that the radio call was in error, and maybe should have been "robbery in progress". There was no way of me knowing if the clerk was being held at gunpoint by someone behind the sales counter. I requested an additional unit, but none were available!
There was one customer in the store, a woman in her 60's, and she didn't seem under duress as she paid for her purchases. After the clerk had wrung up the sale, he stepped outside.
"What was that all about? Why did you ask me to step outside?", I asked the clerk. He pointed to the sign in the window, "No guns allowed". WHAT THE....!
I composed myself, got all of the info (there had, indeed, been an ARMED robbery), and even though a full 15 minutes had passed since the crime, I gave out a crime broadcast. The suspect had probably already spent the money, and was at home.
My professionalism sort of slipped when I asked the clerk why he had asked me to step out of the store. He looked at my holstered pistol, and replied, "Because you are carrying a gun". I then asked the clerk (as if I didn't already know) if the robber had a gun. "Yes, he did", he responded. "Did you ask HIM to step out of the store?", I asked. No reply.
Okay, there was a "problem" of sorts. The clerk was a Pakistani. He said that his employer (franchisee) had put the "No guns allowed" sign in the window, and had explained to all of the employees that it was his policy as well as the corporation's policy.
GEEZ! I had a tough time dealing with the language barrier, but FINALLY got through to the clerk that it was "okay" for a police officer to carry a gun inside the store! He wasn't sure if that violated the policy at first, so I had him call his employer at home.
Anyway, over the past dozen or so years, I've gone out of my way to talk with store managers/owners if I see "No guns allowed" signs in their windows. I've also gone to the trouble of explaining the 7-11 store robbery to them, and entertwine that true story with a hypothetical situation....see below.
After telling about the 7-11 store armed robbery, I explain that there are off-duty LEO's, retired LEO's (like myself), valid CCW permitees, and the ALL are probably carrying concealed weapons. Then, I explain that there are BAD GUYS who carry concealed weapons, and may even hold up their store. I ask, "Of all of those people who carry concealed weapons, which type MIGHT you actually WANT in your store when they're armed?". Of course, they all replied the off-duty and retired LEO's. Then I ask, "Why not the honest, law-abiding citizen who has gone to the trouble of applying for a CCW permit, gone through training as a requirement for their permit, and would never rob your store....but might not patronize your store because of your 'No guns allowed' policy?". About 75% of those managers/owners have either changed their mind or have said that they would try to get the policy changed! Now, maybe I just have a "silver tongue", but I'm proud of my accomplishments! When I've talked with the 25% who wouldn't budge, I've left them with some "food for thought"...."Tell your employees to ask an armed robber to 'Please step outside. You're in violation of our policy'!"
I have MUCH contempt for people who think that guns are "evil", while overlooking the TRUE evil within some people!
The location was a 7-11 convenience store, and I cautiously peered through the front windows before entering the store. As soon as the clerk saw me, he said "Please step outside". HUH? I was in full police uniform. I asked him if the store had been robbed, but he only repeated "Please step outside". That sent shivers up my spine, for it was possible that the radio call was in error, and maybe should have been "robbery in progress". There was no way of me knowing if the clerk was being held at gunpoint by someone behind the sales counter. I requested an additional unit, but none were available!
There was one customer in the store, a woman in her 60's, and she didn't seem under duress as she paid for her purchases. After the clerk had wrung up the sale, he stepped outside.
"What was that all about? Why did you ask me to step outside?", I asked the clerk. He pointed to the sign in the window, "No guns allowed". WHAT THE....!
I composed myself, got all of the info (there had, indeed, been an ARMED robbery), and even though a full 15 minutes had passed since the crime, I gave out a crime broadcast. The suspect had probably already spent the money, and was at home.
My professionalism sort of slipped when I asked the clerk why he had asked me to step out of the store. He looked at my holstered pistol, and replied, "Because you are carrying a gun". I then asked the clerk (as if I didn't already know) if the robber had a gun. "Yes, he did", he responded. "Did you ask HIM to step out of the store?", I asked. No reply.
Okay, there was a "problem" of sorts. The clerk was a Pakistani. He said that his employer (franchisee) had put the "No guns allowed" sign in the window, and had explained to all of the employees that it was his policy as well as the corporation's policy.
GEEZ! I had a tough time dealing with the language barrier, but FINALLY got through to the clerk that it was "okay" for a police officer to carry a gun inside the store! He wasn't sure if that violated the policy at first, so I had him call his employer at home.
Anyway, over the past dozen or so years, I've gone out of my way to talk with store managers/owners if I see "No guns allowed" signs in their windows. I've also gone to the trouble of explaining the 7-11 store robbery to them, and entertwine that true story with a hypothetical situation....see below.
After telling about the 7-11 store armed robbery, I explain that there are off-duty LEO's, retired LEO's (like myself), valid CCW permitees, and the ALL are probably carrying concealed weapons. Then, I explain that there are BAD GUYS who carry concealed weapons, and may even hold up their store. I ask, "Of all of those people who carry concealed weapons, which type MIGHT you actually WANT in your store when they're armed?". Of course, they all replied the off-duty and retired LEO's. Then I ask, "Why not the honest, law-abiding citizen who has gone to the trouble of applying for a CCW permit, gone through training as a requirement for their permit, and would never rob your store....but might not patronize your store because of your 'No guns allowed' policy?". About 75% of those managers/owners have either changed their mind or have said that they would try to get the policy changed! Now, maybe I just have a "silver tongue", but I'm proud of my accomplishments! When I've talked with the 25% who wouldn't budge, I've left them with some "food for thought"...."Tell your employees to ask an armed robber to 'Please step outside. You're in violation of our policy'!"
I have MUCH contempt for people who think that guns are "evil", while overlooking the TRUE evil within some people!
Ah... but very few national chains post against concealed carry.
Why?
Because around 10-15 years ago, people were active, and if some manager got the idea in his head, people called and wrote the corporate management.
Now they think that's too hard and doesn't work, and would rather just "support" concealed carry.
Well, that's nice. I "support" a lot of things. But I work for gun rights.
If a MickeyD's manager posts, call the corporate offices. It _will_ come down.
Maybe. Maybe they're starting to realize how apathetic we are.
P99AS9 said:
I know several conservative (church going, pro-life, etc.) people who are frightened by (or at least uncomfortable with) the thought of CC. To label these people as "liberal" is not necessarily accurate. I think they have just been brain washed and haven't heard the other side of the argument. Probably too much CNN.
Fly
Garand Illusion
New member
Yup. We've allowed guns to get too far out of the mainstream, and allowed the anti-gunners to define them as something "special" that has to be given special treatment. i.e. we need such strong laws about guns that even toy guns aren't allowed in many places.
I try to get those people to go out shooting with me, and when I get a chance I try to direct them to positive stories. It's an uphill climb, but I think I've won a few over. At least to the point of being neutral.
That does work. My wife is an example of a convert. When I met her, I was already a gun enthusiast. I had a couple of rifles and 2 hand guns. Anyway, I only recently got my conceal carry permit in my state. She asked me why I wanted it and I told her to protect myself from accidently breaking a law and also, to protect my family and myself.
She didn't seem to think much of my desire to conceal carry. She made a few snide comments about it when i first started. I would let it go and just tell her that it was a natural thing for me to do, etc. As time passed, I would share articles with her about people who had defended themselves or their families with a gun, etc. I took it slow with her.
To sum up, just the other day we were in a part of town we don't normally go. We passed 3 guys who looked rather tough looking and they just kind of gave us a strange look as we passed, like we were being "cased". As soon as we got a little ways down the walk from them, my wife leaned close to me and whispered.... "are you carrying your gun?".
Of course, I was.
Mission accomplished.
She didn't seem to think much of my desire to conceal carry. She made a few snide comments about it when i first started. I would let it go and just tell her that it was a natural thing for me to do, etc. As time passed, I would share articles with her about people who had defended themselves or their families with a gun, etc. I took it slow with her.
To sum up, just the other day we were in a part of town we don't normally go. We passed 3 guys who looked rather tough looking and they just kind of gave us a strange look as we passed, like we were being "cased". As soon as we got a little ways down the walk from them, my wife leaned close to me and whispered.... "are you carrying your gun?".
Of course, I was.
Mission accomplished.
BoringAccountant
New member
Great success story FireMax...I am trying to do the same with my 'ol lady...of course if she hears me call her that it may take longer to persuade her from the couch.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"Pick your battles. Would your time be beter spent arguing with a McDonalds manager about why you will not buy a quarter-pounder from him, or would it be better spent writing a well-thought letter to your representatives or congressman?"
I don't think that anyone is saying that you should get in face of a manager of one store in a multi-national chain, especially not when such a decision likely comes from corporate.
What is being said, though, is that you should question the policy, seriously consider NOT spending your money in that store or that chain, and letting the powers that be know exactly why you're no longer going to be patronizing that establishment.
Personally, I refuse to spend any money in a store that tells me that it's more than happy to lose my business.
Fortunately, the very few businesses that have posted signs in Pennsylvania and Virginia are stores where I generally wouldn't shop in the first place.
I don't think that anyone is saying that you should get in face of a manager of one store in a multi-national chain, especially not when such a decision likely comes from corporate.
What is being said, though, is that you should question the policy, seriously consider NOT spending your money in that store or that chain, and letting the powers that be know exactly why you're no longer going to be patronizing that establishment.
Personally, I refuse to spend any money in a store that tells me that it's more than happy to lose my business.
Fortunately, the very few businesses that have posted signs in Pennsylvania and Virginia are stores where I generally wouldn't shop in the first place.
DonR101395
New member
Do you live in a cave, burn wood you hand sawed with a saw you made, grow your own food, walk or ride non-motorized transportation and produce all of your clothing? If the answer to any of those is no, you're supporting anti-gun companies in some way. It's just a fact of life that you can't avoid all contact with them.
Own a computer MS and Apple are both not gun friendly.