All, I know is the day I was in the middle of a small creek fly fishing, staring 'up' at a bull Moose chewing Willows on the bank ... It got me to thinking about the pea shooter on my hip. From then on I decided to carry a .4X... Truth be told, I doubt I could unholster in time anyway if he decided to jump me being only a few feet away... What-ever the pros and cons, it made/makes me more comfortable to now lug a big bore. Also, reading about those that actually went and still go looking for trouble (hunters), you don't find many that carry a pea shooter when handgun hunting unless it is for medium/small game or varmint.
Anything .45 colt can do that .357 can't?
- Thread starter Jacket67
- Start date
Keith once said, and I paraphrase here, that if you were limited to factory ammunition alone, the .45 Colt wouldn't be a bad choice. 250+ grains of bullet traveling at over 800 ft per second is nothing to sneeze at.
As I recall, he'd done some extensive work with the .45, but came to the conclusion that it was too fat for the cylinders/strength of the arms then available when subjected to some of his robust loading practices. Hence his predilection for the .44 Spl and later Magnum.
While I like both cartridges (.357 & .454 Colt) and would feel adequately armed with either as a finishing round when big game hunting, I'd say that more weight and a larger caliber with appropriate speed is necessary, when hunting with a short gun...read one of the big 40+ caliber Magnums or the .45 Colt loaded to "Ruger Only"levels.
YMMv, Rod
As I recall, he'd done some extensive work with the .45, but came to the conclusion that it was too fat for the cylinders/strength of the arms then available when subjected to some of his robust loading practices. Hence his predilection for the .44 Spl and later Magnum.
While I like both cartridges (.357 & .454 Colt) and would feel adequately armed with either as a finishing round when big game hunting, I'd say that more weight and a larger caliber with appropriate speed is necessary, when hunting with a short gun...read one of the big 40+ caliber Magnums or the .45 Colt loaded to "Ruger Only"levels.
YMMv, Rod
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stinkeypete
New member
.45 Colt Ruger Only loads are NOTHING LIKE .454 Casull.
.45 Colt can hunt white tails, elk, moose, bear. .357 is not the best choice for game animals over 150 pounds and one might even say "irresponsible" first choice for larger animals if that's your hunting plan.
You're in Colorado. I think you should decide what you will really do with your pistol.
Hunt or Hike About with it or Plink.
Hunt.
If you're really going to hunt elk, moose or bear- .454 all the way. I owned a Freedom Arms 7 1/2" .454 Casull and weight is your very good friend- recoil is fierce. FIERCE. Ruger is now offering a "new model super blackhawk" in .454 casull.
.45 Colt loaded for Ruger Only is not an irresponsible choice for any of the game animals above, in my opinion. .357 is not a responsible choice unless you don't mind letting many animals go because you are not 100% sure you have that perfect shot placement. Recoil is STOUT.
Walking about.
45 Ounces empty, more than three pounds loaded. A Blackhawk is a lot of steel to take on your hip for a 8 mile hike in the mountains. It's heavy. For a .357, it's unacceptably heavy. Until you light off a hot .357 round because then that weight soaks up a snappy little round that's no powderpuff
My walkabout is the 16 oz. LCRX 3" in .38 +p. (My postal scale confirms that weight.) With .38 +p, recoul is snappy.
My other walking-about gun is a Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Magnum. The smaller Single Six frame gets the weight down to 2 1/2 pounds. It's not as heavy as the .357 Blackhawk and does just the same number on rabbits or pine cones. Recoil is more than a .22 so you feel like it's there and big enough that it doesn't sound like you're spitting at a metal plate.
The idea of the conversion cylinder is great. In practice, I have not heard of anyone really using them. They sit in the grey box and help when you go to sell the pistol.
Plink.
I mean you just want a single action revolver to take out because you enjoy shooting.
Any Ruger Single Action is highly recommended. Out of the box they are all pretty good. After a while, they are all easy to slick up a little with just a little lubrication and changing a couple of springs from Wolf. $15 home gunsmith project.
After many years of trading through just about every Blackhawk, here is what I have whittled my collection down to:
Bowen "perfected hunter" .44 Magnum Bisley Blackhawk. My dad gave it to me, and it's arguably the pinnacle of Blackhawks. Why .44 Magnum? Well, there are factory loads from cowboy to heavy hunting. My old man didn't always feel like reloading ammo.
Ruger .32 H&R Bisley Single Six. Since I reload, all I can say is.. wow. This thing is so fun to shoot! There is no need to shoot every tin can with a howitzer. You can't buy one, which is partly why I love it, but you can get a Single Seven in .327 Fed Mag and simply shoot less stout loads. I like to keep my stuff sub-sonic because why make all that noise?
.38 LCRx. It's not pretty, it's not elitist. It weighs a pound. You toss it in your jacket pocket and go for a hike.
The thing about .44 Magnum or .45 Colt- you could not ask for a better cartridge to learn how to reload. If you want to be serious, reloading takes you to the next level. Make your pistol do what you want, plain and simple.
.45 Colt can hunt white tails, elk, moose, bear. .357 is not the best choice for game animals over 150 pounds and one might even say "irresponsible" first choice for larger animals if that's your hunting plan.
You're in Colorado. I think you should decide what you will really do with your pistol.
Hunt or Hike About with it or Plink.
Hunt.
If you're really going to hunt elk, moose or bear- .454 all the way. I owned a Freedom Arms 7 1/2" .454 Casull and weight is your very good friend- recoil is fierce. FIERCE. Ruger is now offering a "new model super blackhawk" in .454 casull.
.45 Colt loaded for Ruger Only is not an irresponsible choice for any of the game animals above, in my opinion. .357 is not a responsible choice unless you don't mind letting many animals go because you are not 100% sure you have that perfect shot placement. Recoil is STOUT.
Walking about.
45 Ounces empty, more than three pounds loaded. A Blackhawk is a lot of steel to take on your hip for a 8 mile hike in the mountains. It's heavy. For a .357, it's unacceptably heavy. Until you light off a hot .357 round because then that weight soaks up a snappy little round that's no powderpuff
My walkabout is the 16 oz. LCRX 3" in .38 +p. (My postal scale confirms that weight.) With .38 +p, recoul is snappy.
My other walking-about gun is a Ruger Single Six in .32 H&R Magnum. The smaller Single Six frame gets the weight down to 2 1/2 pounds. It's not as heavy as the .357 Blackhawk and does just the same number on rabbits or pine cones. Recoil is more than a .22 so you feel like it's there and big enough that it doesn't sound like you're spitting at a metal plate.
The idea of the conversion cylinder is great. In practice, I have not heard of anyone really using them. They sit in the grey box and help when you go to sell the pistol.
Plink.
I mean you just want a single action revolver to take out because you enjoy shooting.
Any Ruger Single Action is highly recommended. Out of the box they are all pretty good. After a while, they are all easy to slick up a little with just a little lubrication and changing a couple of springs from Wolf. $15 home gunsmith project.
After many years of trading through just about every Blackhawk, here is what I have whittled my collection down to:
Bowen "perfected hunter" .44 Magnum Bisley Blackhawk. My dad gave it to me, and it's arguably the pinnacle of Blackhawks. Why .44 Magnum? Well, there are factory loads from cowboy to heavy hunting. My old man didn't always feel like reloading ammo.
Ruger .32 H&R Bisley Single Six. Since I reload, all I can say is.. wow. This thing is so fun to shoot! There is no need to shoot every tin can with a howitzer. You can't buy one, which is partly why I love it, but you can get a Single Seven in .327 Fed Mag and simply shoot less stout loads. I like to keep my stuff sub-sonic because why make all that noise?
.38 LCRx. It's not pretty, it's not elitist. It weighs a pound. You toss it in your jacket pocket and go for a hike.
The thing about .44 Magnum or .45 Colt- you could not ask for a better cartridge to learn how to reload. If you want to be serious, reloading takes you to the next level. Make your pistol do what you want, plain and simple.
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Reading some of the comments tells me I wasn't clear enough in the purpose of my "hunting pistol".
I would never intend on this being used as a primary hunting tool. It would be carried as a sidearm/protection gun secondary to my bow or rifle for the hunt. If that sways your opinions, please let me know.
I would never intend on this being used as a primary hunting tool. It would be carried as a sidearm/protection gun secondary to my bow or rifle for the hunt. If that sways your opinions, please let me know.
I have seven 357 revolvers so thats my preference. I almost bought a Ruger 45 Colt/45 ACP a few years ago because I wanted the lighter alloy frame they come with. I knew it would make it more pleasant to carry. But I found a deal on a NIB Super BH in 44 mag and since I handload I bought that instead.
I have full power 44 mag loads and loads all the way down to pop gun levels. But the 44 rarely ever gets shot. The 357s get shot nearly every range trip. And light 38 target loads get shot a lot. For a trail gun I like the GP-100 with 4" barrel and my mid range 357 loads. And those are a hard cast lead 158gr bullet pushed with 6.6grs of Unique. Its accurate and has enough power to shoot length ways through a large Goat. I did that once.
Those are nice to shoot and have a real step up in power over 38 special ammo without the blast of a full bore 357 load. I load something similar for the 44 mag with a 240gr lead bullet and 9grs of Unique.
I have full power 44 mag loads and loads all the way down to pop gun levels. But the 44 rarely ever gets shot. The 357s get shot nearly every range trip. And light 38 target loads get shot a lot. For a trail gun I like the GP-100 with 4" barrel and my mid range 357 loads. And those are a hard cast lead 158gr bullet pushed with 6.6grs of Unique. Its accurate and has enough power to shoot length ways through a large Goat. I did that once.
Those are nice to shoot and have a real step up in power over 38 special ammo without the blast of a full bore 357 load. I load something similar for the 44 mag with a 240gr lead bullet and 9grs of Unique.
stinkeypete
New member
As a backup to a rifle, I would take a lcrx in .38.
I love the blackhawks but they are heavy. After a day walking, two extra pounds matters.
I love the blackhawks but they are heavy. After a day walking, two extra pounds matters.
What about weight matters more to you when packing a handgun? Ease of carry (light weight) or how it behaves when shooting?
I accept the heavier weight of large full size pistols as the price for them being more "shootable" because the heavier weight damps more of the recoil.
There's no free lunch.
Several skilled folks have taken impressively big critters with the original S&W .357. 158gr @ 1500fps+ from the long barrel Smith. Not a wimpy load by any means or standard. Tough to find ammo at that level today, unless you make it yourself.
I was taught that this is what ethical, responsible hunters DO. Though I also know that many people do not.
Sport hunting isn't combat, it isn't self defense, and it isn't survival hunting. Questionable shots should be passed up.
I like the .45 Colt, in a Ruger Blackhawk you can load it from cowboy game load levels up to over 12-1300fps with 250gr bullets. This can, and has dropped everything that walks in North America, including some very large bears, providing the shooter does their part correctly.
I also believe in my signature line...
I accept the heavier weight of large full size pistols as the price for them being more "shootable" because the heavier weight damps more of the recoil.
There's no free lunch.
Several skilled folks have taken impressively big critters with the original S&W .357. 158gr @ 1500fps+ from the long barrel Smith. Not a wimpy load by any means or standard. Tough to find ammo at that level today, unless you make it yourself.
I was taught that this is what ethical, responsible hunters DO. Though I also know that many people do not.
Sport hunting isn't combat, it isn't self defense, and it isn't survival hunting. Questionable shots should be passed up.
I like the .45 Colt, in a Ruger Blackhawk you can load it from cowboy game load levels up to over 12-1300fps with 250gr bullets. This can, and has dropped everything that walks in North America, including some very large bears, providing the shooter does their part correctly.
I also believe in my signature line...
stinkeypete
New member
We’re in agreement. When backing up an eight pound center fire rifle and I expect my shot to be at three feet for the pistol... even a .22 might do.
As for passing up shots, over the years I’ve learned that my estimation of my skill in the field has overestimated my actual ability more times than I’m proud to admit. My experience in the field is that for me, .44/.45 is much more forgiving of my errors and more humane tool for a gruesome job. Even taking the .357 Max in to account, which was my first selection for a centerfire pistol.
Plugged and muffed, spf 50 on my face to deal with the fireball.. I would still pick .45 Colt for hunting deer. Even using simple cast lead in .45 vs hollow point .357 Max. As pointed out, being pleasant to shoot matters. That Max takes nerve to light off.
As for passing up shots, over the years I’ve learned that my estimation of my skill in the field has overestimated my actual ability more times than I’m proud to admit. My experience in the field is that for me, .44/.45 is much more forgiving of my errors and more humane tool for a gruesome job. Even taking the .357 Max in to account, which was my first selection for a centerfire pistol.
Plugged and muffed, spf 50 on my face to deal with the fireball.. I would still pick .45 Colt for hunting deer. Even using simple cast lead in .45 vs hollow point .357 Max. As pointed out, being pleasant to shoot matters. That Max takes nerve to light off.
Okay, Jacket, that does color my comments.
Over the years, I've used my sidearm to finish 5 deer for hunters that took shots that didn't do the job, as well as a cpl that had been hit by cars.
The calibers were: .22LR with a Single Six Ruger from ~20 yds; several with a .357 Smith 3" model 60, and one with a Smith Model 1955 Target in .45 ACP. All but one were head shots and none were closer than 10 yds. Out west I finished a large cow elk with a broken back with .44 Magnum...the shot from ~10 yds, to the neck.
None of these, I'd care to repeat...most entailed a lengthly trail up with frequent remarks by the hunters involved that would have left a wounded animal in the woods for a death by coyote...a grim thought that.
So here are my points. A large caliber handgun may allow you access to dense thickets that are all but impenetrable with a rifle and where the visibility is minimal. But pick a good finishing caliber....44 Spl, .41 Mag, 44 Mag...you get the idea.
The same gun, should be good enough for a one and only firearm in bear country. In my case, two decades, I drew a cow tag for elk in the high country northeast of Jefferson, Colorado. On opening day, a herd of 20-25 cut across an open park, two hundred yds from where I'd stopped to scope the open area.
I killed my cow at 9:30 am, & working alone, I spent a several hours quartering her and rigging my packboard for the haul out to my jeep parked on a two-track 3/4 of a mile through the timber. After side-hilling in 6" of frozen crusted snow, on the first trip out, with a hind qtr loaded, I decided to leave my .35 Whelen in the jeep. It was getting along in the afternoon, and I figured I could get one more load out before dark and didn't want the extra weight of the rifle.
On the trip back to the kill site, I found fresh bear tracks in my previous pack out trail. It'll give you the willies, believe me...especially when you're not packing a back up gun. That bear had followed me for several hundred yards, but then veered off and I never saw nor heard him. A hundred pounds of fresh elk meat on your back and no gun in bear country is a recipe for disaster.
As it turned out, after reaching the kill site, I decide to haul the best cuts up into the trees with my backboard rigging rope then hiked back to the jeep without a load. It was a scary, watchful hike back out...crunching snow, lengthening shadows...
I was convinced I'd be lucky to get any more of that elk out, but in the am, fully armed, I found it undisturbed. Lesson learned...I had left a tanker type holster with a .44 Smith in camp but didn't want the extra weight on that 1st day.
I'm a flat lander from KY and 9000+ feet of elevation is a killer when you're in your late 50's and packing out heavy meat. I now tote some sort of handgun on most deer hunts even here in KY, and if I had the legs and lungs still for Colorado, I'd do the same while elk hunting.
Lastly, a handgun is good on the hip in camp as well as out in the bush. Not all of us are honest and upright in the game fields and an empty camp is an invitation to thieves. Alone in camp, but armed, you're not so much of an easy target.
Just some thoughts...Rod
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Very true. I’ve shot .357 in the outdoors without hearing protection. It was awful. Never again. 45 Colt by comparison is nothing.
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jetinteriorguy
New member
First of all, as a backup protection gun I’d never use a SA, no disrespect meant to SA lovers. Given your choice between these two calibers and the intended purpose a nice DA with either a 3” or 4” under lug barrel in .357 would be my choice. If you don’t mind a little extra weight go with an 8 round cylinder for extra fire power like a S&W 627. Carry it in either a chest rig or under arm rig and the weight won’t bother as much and still be very accessible in an emergency.
the OP is interested in Rugers, either the Blackhawk or Redhawk. He already has a .45, and a couple of 9mms.
His stated primary concern is protection from dangerous animals (the 4 legged kind).
Generally speaking, animals are not impressed with the size of the gun or the hole in the barrel, or how many shots it holds. Nor are they usually impressed by being shot at if they have already decided to act against you. Hit(s) in the right place are what they pay attention to, and I don't think one is at a huge disadvantage with an SA revolver, if you can use it fairly well. (this goes for about everything, its the person, not the tool that gets hits)
Either round can do the job if the shooter can. The op seems to be leaning to the .45 now, 357 later and wants to be able to shoot multiple rounds from both (acp from the 45Colt, 9mm from the 357) The Blackhawk convertible is made for that. And while considered a big, heavy gun, its quite a bit lighter than a Redhawk.
Personally, I would not feel under armed with a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 or in .357. That being said, if I were packing my .357 Blackhawk, it wouldn't be with a 9mm cylinder in it.
"Mountain lions, black bear, moose, and now wolves (albeit very few) are the main 4-legged threats in the woods that I know of. Would .357 mag handle these situations on the slim chance I'd need to"?
With that in mind and as much as I like the .45 Colt cartridge I would likely opt for a four inch barrel .357 Magnum. You are simply looking for a carry gun in the Colorado woodlands capable of stopping the game you listed.
My .45 Colt is an old Ruger Stainless Redhawk and while the .45 Colt is a fine cartridge and I load both .357 Magnum and .45 Colt I see no need for the .45 Colt unless you really want one.
Ron
With that in mind and as much as I like the .45 Colt cartridge I would likely opt for a four inch barrel .357 Magnum. You are simply looking for a carry gun in the Colorado woodlands capable of stopping the game you listed.
My .45 Colt is an old Ruger Stainless Redhawk and while the .45 Colt is a fine cartridge and I load both .357 Magnum and .45 Colt I see no need for the .45 Colt unless you really want one.
Ron
Get the 45 Colt / 45 acp Blackhawk Convertible .
Why ? Your own words " I do realy like the idea of owning a 45 Colt and having another option to shoot 45 acp in ." Go with your gut instincts .
50+ years ago I passed up the chance to buy a 4 5/8" barreled 45 Colt / 45 acp BH and have regretted it ever since ... the 357 Magnum I bought is great , it shoots 38 special ... but it's NOT a 45 Colt . Just something about a 45 Single Action .
Gary
Why ? Your own words " I do realy like the idea of owning a 45 Colt and having another option to shoot 45 acp in ." Go with your gut instincts .
50+ years ago I passed up the chance to buy a 4 5/8" barreled 45 Colt / 45 acp BH and have regretted it ever since ... the 357 Magnum I bought is great , it shoots 38 special ... but it's NOT a 45 Colt . Just something about a 45 Single Action .
Gary