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Anyone Have Any "No-Manual-Safety" Horror Stories?
- Thread starter Single Six
- Start date
To answer Mrray13;
Clint Smith at Thunder ranch, Gave Suarez and some of the instructor’s at Front-Sight all have discussed this issue.
I have seen it done only one time and thankfully no one was hurt, but there are several other instructors that have dealt with the ramifications of this kind of “A.D.” The use of the push button release was common in all of them.
That doesn’t mean that student can’t be taught to use them, and use them well, but taking someone from the ground up and trying to teach them all they need to know and practice in 5 -6 days is hard enough to do. Placing them under stress without a lot of time behind the gun and the gear, is asking for a problem.
I am NOT advocating abandoning the use of these holsters. What I (and other instructors) am saying here is that we don’t want to shoulder that problem in classes with new shooters if we have no need to do so. As with most studies, the more advanced the skill level of the student, the better they handle the tools.
As a rule I am taking students of a rather advance level of skill as my “beginners”. They are not green or raw. So I have not seen the problem as much as the boys at Front Sight, and Gunsight, or as many as Gabe Suarez have seen. My friend Mike (Reno Swat) has also told me of several incidents of “A.Ds.” with such holsters.
In most cases, the students are a bit green, but not always.
The one that happened in front of me was done by a man that had many years of shooting experience and was a former LA county Sheriff’s deputy and competitive shooter. He had LOTS of experience in shooting, but had only had the new holster for about a month. Pressing the button was a new drill for him, and he got “out of sink” with it.
I believe it might be safer for a shooter that had never used anything else to use these kind of holsters, than it is for someone to go from a regular (old fashioned) holster to the new one.
“Muscle memory” is easy to learn but hard to un-learn.
I have no way to prove my point, but it’s my theory that a new shooter with a push-button holster is likely to be trained to use it correctly with less danger than an old timer (like myself) could be re-trained. Again, it’s just a theory, and not anything I can prove.
Clint Smith at Thunder ranch, Gave Suarez and some of the instructor’s at Front-Sight all have discussed this issue.
I have seen it done only one time and thankfully no one was hurt, but there are several other instructors that have dealt with the ramifications of this kind of “A.D.” The use of the push button release was common in all of them.
That doesn’t mean that student can’t be taught to use them, and use them well, but taking someone from the ground up and trying to teach them all they need to know and practice in 5 -6 days is hard enough to do. Placing them under stress without a lot of time behind the gun and the gear, is asking for a problem.
I am NOT advocating abandoning the use of these holsters. What I (and other instructors) am saying here is that we don’t want to shoulder that problem in classes with new shooters if we have no need to do so. As with most studies, the more advanced the skill level of the student, the better they handle the tools.
As a rule I am taking students of a rather advance level of skill as my “beginners”. They are not green or raw. So I have not seen the problem as much as the boys at Front Sight, and Gunsight, or as many as Gabe Suarez have seen. My friend Mike (Reno Swat) has also told me of several incidents of “A.Ds.” with such holsters.
In most cases, the students are a bit green, but not always.
The one that happened in front of me was done by a man that had many years of shooting experience and was a former LA county Sheriff’s deputy and competitive shooter. He had LOTS of experience in shooting, but had only had the new holster for about a month. Pressing the button was a new drill for him, and he got “out of sink” with it.
I believe it might be safer for a shooter that had never used anything else to use these kind of holsters, than it is for someone to go from a regular (old fashioned) holster to the new one.
“Muscle memory” is easy to learn but hard to un-learn.
I have no way to prove my point, but it’s my theory that a new shooter with a push-button holster is likely to be trained to use it correctly with less danger than an old timer (like myself) could be re-trained. Again, it’s just a theory, and not anything I can prove.
I believe that the majority of AD's definitely qualify as ND's. I do know of one, however, that resulted in a cleanly harvested deer. I believe it was an AD on the shooter's end but I consider it an ND on the part of the individual who handed him the rifle. The rifle had a VERY light trigger. The shooter, who wasn't warned about the light trigger, took aim, took off the safety, and then put his finger on the trigger and the rifle fired. When he looked up, he didn't see the deer and assumed that he missed and it ran off. What actually happened was that it was a good hit and the deer dropped in it's tracks.
As for the OP, I am sure it has happened but the only stories like this I have heard of involved LEOs.
As for the OP, I am sure it has happened but the only stories like this I have heard of involved LEOs.