Anyone Have Any "No-Manual-Safety" Horror Stories?

Single Six

New member
It's well known that a pistol equipped with a manual safety can save the life of a LEO if a BG gets his gun away from him. There are a great many such cases of this very thing happening over the decades; the BG struggles with the LEO for the officer's gun, wrestles it away and tries to kill said officer with same...only to fail because he can't figure out how to "turn it on." That gives the officer time to access his BUG and solve the problem [or, if he's not carrying a second gun, to run like heck]. This is the reason I prefer a manual safety on my auto pistols. Here's my question: Does anyone out there know of any incidents involving regular citizens where a manual safety could have prevented them being shot with their own gun by a BG?
 

Jimmy10mm

New member
IIRC Lynnette "Squeaky" Fromm wasn't aware of the safety being 'on' when she attempted to shoot President Ford with a model 1911. That is the only event that comes to my mind at the moment.
 

Wyosmith

New member
DA revolvers don't have them either!

If we keep our fingers off the trigger until the sights are on target, such horror stories will not happen.

The used of some of the push-button plastic holsters have lent to such accidents from time to time because the tension needed to press the buttons has caused some people under stress to slip past the button to the triggers.
I for one don't allow them to be used in my classes for that reason.
 

glockcompact

New member
Does anyone out there know of any incidents involving regular citizens where a manual safety could have prevented them being shot
No, but I was at a range about 15 years back and witnessed someone with a neglagent discharge with a pistol that had a manual safety. He shot his cousin in the calf it then ricocheted off the ground, fragmented and hit two other people in the shin and knee. The knee was mine. I had to go get the fragment removed from my knee at the hospital. I think idiots are far more dangerous then any weapon I've ever handled. Guns without safeties aren't dangerous, Idiots are dangerous. :eek:
 
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Billy Shears

New member
Wasn't there a thread here recently about a guy who shot himself in the butt with his Glock when he tried to get into his car. He had a loose, floppy IWB holster that he should have thrown away a long time ago. The holster caught the trigger and discharged a round.

NDs can happen with any pistol, manual safety or not. And they can happen to any one of us. It's almost cliche to say that the best safety is the one between our ears, but I think that's very true.
 

Seaman

New member
Don't know. Last time I saw a cop with a 1911 was about 3 decades ago, circa 1981.

Am carrying an SW99 today, if a BG gets it, I'm dead meat. I won't get to my ankle BUG in time, which is ironically, a small 1911.
 

mrray13

New member
Wyosmith said:
The used of some of the push-button plastic holsters have lent to such accidents from time to time because the tension needed to press the buttons has caused some people under stress to slip past the button to the triggers.
I for one don't allow them to be used in my classes for that reason.

Where? Not your class, but proof of these cases. Not trying to be rude, but I carry a Serpa CQC off duty, know several LEOs who use them, both level II like my CQC and level III, and not one single incident of that has happened. Nor have I ever read about one, save for something like your post. Now, I'm not saying it hasn't happened, anything is possible, but the inherent design of the Serpa puts your trigger finger alongside the frame, not in the trigger guard. I just want to see some documented proof, outside of someone's post.


As too the manual safety issue, it does indeed work both ways. I've seen LEOs at the range look silly when they forget to disengage the safety after drawing, usually on a 1911. Imagine that in a high stress situation.

IMO, it's all in how you train. I'm sure some civilian somewhere was shot with their non-manual safety weapon at one time. I don't know of any specific case of it. Just like I'm sure Wyosmith is correct and someone has ND'ed their non-manual safety, or manual safetied (as you are supposed to disengage it as you draw, correct?) weapon when drawn from a Serpa sytle holster.

I train that if someone is going after my duty weapon, currently a decocker only FNP-9, my Ka-Bar TDI comes out, and someone is getting cut. If only enough to getting spacing and either get to my car and get my carbine, or draw my pistol and end the affair.

One can't train for every situation, and one can't pick out their BG. One can only train as best they can and hope it's more then enough when the SHTF. Manual safety or not.
 

dean1818

New member
I hate manual safeties


I, like others havent seen a cop carry a gun in MANY years that has a manual safety

I see Glocks.......no manual safety
I see SIG 226/229........ No manual safety
I see a few S&W, M&P, but didnt see that it had the safety option

The first 2 HAVE to have 70% of the US market for LEs if not more

I think if you were to ask the vast majority of the LE's and they would say they DONT want a manual safety
 

Hardcase

New member
Other than the Squeaky Fromme incident, that's all I've heard of, but I'm sure that there are other examples. The reason that I'd care to have a gun with a manual safety was if it was carried cocked with one in the chamber.

I get the feeling that the number of semi-autos purchased today without manual safeties dwarfs the number with. Besides, I think that it's possible to overthink the situation.
 

Boats

Moderator
The vast majority of LEs are no more qualified to be experts on firearms than they are to be experts on cars.
 

Falcon642

New member
I, like others havent seen a cop carry a gun in MANY years that has a manual safety

How about the Beretta 92/96, the Beretta Cougar, or the new Beretta PX4 Storm series? All of those guns have manual safeties.

I agree Glocks are more common by far, but there are a fair number of Beretta's out there.
 

Single Six

New member
Altbum: Last time Massad Ayoob mentioned it, he had no documented cases of cops forgetting to de-activate their manual safety and thereby getting shot. But he does have multiple cases of cops being saved by the manual safety feature. Meanwhile, my agency used to issue the S&W 5906. I carried mine safety-on. Through training, I became accustomed to wiping off the safety as the gun was coming up on target. It became an automatic thing for me; when we transitioned to the "to hell and back reliable" [NOT!!!!:barf:] Sig P220, it took me a long time to stop habitually wiping off a manual safety that was no longer there.
 

TeamSinglestack

New member
I think idiots are far more dangerous then any weapon I've ever handled. Guns without safeties aren't dangerous, Idiots are dangerous.

LOL!

Isn't THAT the truth!

You can make something idiot "resistant", but you can NEVER make ANYTHING idiot "proof".

I prefer arms with manual safeties simply because not everyone is familiar with the individual features and characteristics of every type of firearm. While highly unlikely, SHOULD another individual opt to use my firearms, the manual safety features MAY make it more difficult to employ in a threatening or negligent manner.

I have no issues with "point and press" arms, and believe they are an excellent choice for duty and defensive purposes. It all comes down to personal preference, and how much time you are willing to put into sustainment training and conditioning.
 

IGO1320

New member
AD's or ND's your choice

I have seen two instances in cars of AD/ND's, the first was many years ago and a friend managed to set a Glock of in an IWB holter buckling his seat belt, bullet went harmlessly into the seat and into the floorboard which it did not successfully penetrate. Second was a gentleman who set off a round with a seatbelt again sitting in traffic in a not too friendly to gun owners district. He was traveling through and ended up making a wrong turn and was going to stop for directions so since his permit wasn't honored in that district he tried to remove the IWB holster and gun and put the gun and hoster in the console, somehow he managed to hang the gun up on his seat belt and when he tried to pull it free he set it off. He was not as fortunate and put a .40 135gr corbon load through his right hip. Now this is the unbelievable part, knowing he would surely end up in jail he had his wife stuff a towel against his hip and drove through two states to a CCW friendly state then went to the first hospital his GPS located. Cops even gave him his gun back. That is lucky. No permanent damage except to his pride. First gun had no safety second one did but it got bumped off, morale of the story always be vigilant and careful.
 

RickB

New member
A shooting buddy put a .45 slug through his leg, when "something" got into his holster with the gun and tripped the (DA) trigger as he holstered. I think manually operated safeties are a really good idea; much more so than grip safeties, or a "safety" in the middle of the trigger!
 

dean1818

New member
I think the Ber 92/96 usage by LEs is dropping very fast

Thats why you see these in so many trade in deals
(or destroyed)

I cant prove it, but I will stand by my assertion of a minimum of 70% being Glocks or SIGs with Smith and Wesson also growing

The first time I purchased a pistol I purchased a CZ75B....... one of the reasons...... it had a manual safety

I have become a complete convert in believing that a manual safety is not needed.
 

SPUSCG

New member
Ive never seen a police officer with a beretta. And many departments that issued them are trading them in. They just dont catch on.
 
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