There is an old marketing truism that you simply cannot escape your reputation. S&W has a fine reputation for revolvers, consequently they build fine revolvers and everyone agrees that they build fine revolvers. Smith has built quality autos for many years that never caught on with the shooting public. Is this really because those autos were so "bad". I don't think so, I think S&W is simply pegged as "THE REVOLVER COMPANY". People associate the company so strongly with revolvers that no matter how good an auto-pistol they turn out; it will be considered second rate. For more than 30 years, Smith has failed to capture a niche in the auto-pistol business; even though their products have been, for the most part, innovative and reliable. The problem is image. The solution would be for Smith & Wesson to drop the auto-pistol from the primare product and restart it as a seperate brand. Sig makes a quality product. But people also associate Sig with fine quality double action auto pistols because that is all they make. How likely would anyone be to purchase a Sig .38 snub nose revolver? Not very likely. I'll bet a sack of donuts that if Sig, or HK, or Glock came out with a line of quality revolvers, no one would buy them and most of us would say -- "Does anyone actually like Sig revolvers? They sure don't stack up against Smith & Wesson!" Brand identity is a critical factor when products of fairly comparable quality compete against each other. Product features and quality are usually secondary under these circumstances. My $.02 -- Regards, Kurt
Anyone actually Like S&W autos??
- Thread starter Rob Pincus
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Some of the problems with peoples impression of S&W autoloaders could also go back to there first generation guns. A friend of mine bought one of the first Mod 39s and for what ever reason it is still one of the most unreliable auto's I've seen. (Short of Lorcin and the like) I doubt he ever gets two mags through it without some sort of malfuction.
I also don't like the trigger. The going from double to single action didn't really bother me but the feel of the single action with all that take up just doesn't cut it. Maybe if I had shot it more I would have gotten use to that.
As a result, even inspite of reliability recommendations, I was a little leery about getting mine, a 6944 which is a DAO. Being primarily a wheelgunner the longer trigger pull doesn't bother me at all and unlike his gun, mine hasn't never malfunctioned.
[This message has been edited by Drifter (edited 12-05-98).]
I also don't like the trigger. The going from double to single action didn't really bother me but the feel of the single action with all that take up just doesn't cut it. Maybe if I had shot it more I would have gotten use to that.
As a result, even inspite of reliability recommendations, I was a little leery about getting mine, a 6944 which is a DAO. Being primarily a wheelgunner the longer trigger pull doesn't bother me at all and unlike his gun, mine hasn't never malfunctioned.
[This message has been edited by Drifter (edited 12-05-98).]
OK. I confess and ask forgiveness. I own an older style S&W 4506 with the prominent European style finger rest trigger guard. Hate that feature. Despite this, my 4506 came in very handy when I prepared a lengthy paper detailing the operation of a S&W pistol. If you can fix one, you can fix them all. For a short while when my Sig P220 was in the shop for nite sights (no, unlike Doc's mine never went full auto) I carried it as my duty weapon. What surprised me about the gun was how the muzzle blast seemed greater than the Sig - and the Smith has a 1/2" longer barrel!
Kurt is right in that S&W is better known for its revolvers. I love their revolvers and when I returned from their pistol armorer school, I bought their 8 shot 22! Not that I won't buy a S&W pistol. I would if it was cheap enough - like $300 for a model 457 which make a nice fishing gun. Small, light, discreet and it's a 45.
[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 11-26-98).]
Kurt is right in that S&W is better known for its revolvers. I love their revolvers and when I returned from their pistol armorer school, I bought their 8 shot 22! Not that I won't buy a S&W pistol. I would if it was cheap enough - like $300 for a model 457 which make a nice fishing gun. Small, light, discreet and it's a 45.
[This message has been edited by 4V50 Gary (edited 11-26-98).]
I'm a single action auto man myself,but for
a couple of years there our CCW permits
required that we could only carry DA autos.
I was very happy with a smith 3914. It was
small, light and easy to conceal. Darned
good shooter too. I never had any problem
scoring in the high 90's at qualification
time. I did make two modifications to make it work better for me. First: A set of Houge
wood grips. Second: A regular spur type hammer from a 3904. I just hate bobbed hammers! Now the rules have changed and I carry a Lightweight Commander 45. But, I
still have that Smith and don't plan on getting rid of it.
a couple of years there our CCW permits
required that we could only carry DA autos.
I was very happy with a smith 3914. It was
small, light and easy to conceal. Darned
good shooter too. I never had any problem
scoring in the high 90's at qualification
time. I did make two modifications to make it work better for me. First: A set of Houge
wood grips. Second: A regular spur type hammer from a 3904. I just hate bobbed hammers! Now the rules have changed and I carry a Lightweight Commander 45. But, I
still have that Smith and don't plan on getting rid of it.
BrokenArrow
New member
RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) tested the S&W and the SIG P226 and went with the S&W! Even though the SWAT Teams were already using the SIGs. They work.
I know a guy who blew up two G22 barrels w his pet IPSC 200 gr 40 load; his SIGMA eats it up no problems at all!
My lil sis traded her G19 in for a SIGMA, shoots it much better.
The new ones have a rounded slide, accessory rails, and grip checkering too!
I know a guy who blew up two G22 barrels w his pet IPSC 200 gr 40 load; his SIGMA eats it up no problems at all!
My lil sis traded her G19 in for a SIGMA, shoots it much better.
The new ones have a rounded slide, accessory rails, and grip checkering too!
Picked up a LEO turn-in 4506-2 last week, from the Tempe, AZ police deartment. Gun was in pretty good shape, very obviously not damaged by excess cleaning!!!
For a bedside gun, I prefer it to a single action, and for my hands it feels better than a SIG or Glock. I'm keeping my 1911's for most stuff, but I really like this one.
Also, the accuracy is OK, and it's 100% reliable. For everything, there may be a purpose!
Bob
For a bedside gun, I prefer it to a single action, and for my hands it feels better than a SIG or Glock. I'm keeping my 1911's for most stuff, but I really like this one.
Also, the accuracy is OK, and it's 100% reliable. For everything, there may be a purpose!
Bob
like2shoot
New member
Both of my smith 45's have been more reliable than my sig 229.
joegerardi
New member
I think part of the problem is the price. Ths S&W's are expensive for the quality of the pistol you get. In Marcus' post he states "... and all for $300." Well, that is a good deal then. But if you are looking (like I am) at a 4006, after reading of the problems that *seem* inherent in Smiths, there's no way I going to invest $500.00 in a pistol. Not when I know I can get guaranteed reliability from Glocks, SIGs, Walthers or H&Ks for the same money.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Ummm.... Stating categorically that S&W autos are "bad" as opposed to "good" (fill in the blank) seems shortsighted at best. There is no perfect handgun, so you look at missions and features. I like my bedside 5906 due to the mag safety and the sure fire light. The hi-cap mag helps me sleep better too. (remedies the kids visiting and target ID in my estimation) Just to point out some short comings of other brands, Glocks have that horrible grip angle and no safety. (same with wheel guns) SIGS are too complicated internally and have no safety. 1911's have feeding problems and need some work before being street ready.. I have all the guns mentioned, so you can see that once again, figure out what the nission is and select accordingly..
Giz
Giz
Used Ranger's 4506 to qualify last year. Nice gun, always worked, but:
- I'm not in law enforcement so the magazine safety is of little consequence for me. If I can't avoid a tussle, I'll either win quickly or come up shooting. Different for LEOs, I know.
- Lack of familiarity and training kept me worried that I'd have that danged decocker in the wrong position when I needed firepower most!
I've not noticed the difficulty going back and forth between 1911s and Glocks. I carry 1911s. To me, a Glock is like a 1911 cocked and UNlocked! I'm too worried that I'll catch the Glock trigger on the holster, tangled clothing, or something else and blow a hole in myself. Training might overcome this fear, but right now it gives me the willies. I'll stick with 1911s for the time being. With my Wilson Combat mags I've never had a malfunction. (One time my 1911 even fired a few .40s for one of my students!
)
- I'm not in law enforcement so the magazine safety is of little consequence for me. If I can't avoid a tussle, I'll either win quickly or come up shooting. Different for LEOs, I know.
- Lack of familiarity and training kept me worried that I'd have that danged decocker in the wrong position when I needed firepower most!
I've not noticed the difficulty going back and forth between 1911s and Glocks. I carry 1911s. To me, a Glock is like a 1911 cocked and UNlocked! I'm too worried that I'll catch the Glock trigger on the holster, tangled clothing, or something else and blow a hole in myself. Training might overcome this fear, but right now it gives me the willies. I'll stick with 1911s for the time being. With my Wilson Combat mags I've never had a malfunction. (One time my 1911 even fired a few .40s for one of my students!
Phil Degraves
New member
I love the Smith 3rd Gen Autos. How anyone can say they haven't caught on, well, you must have blinders on. They are extremely popular with Police Departments at least up here in the Northeast. They are trimmer than Glocks, HKs, Rugers, and Sigs. If you don't belive me, try placing a Sig in a holster made for a Smith. They are rugged and more reliable than just about any gun on the market. And the front sight doesn't break off like a Glock. At our range, weapon failures occur with all makes but least with Smiths. Berettas, often, mostly magazine related. Glocks, not too much, but parts keep coming off the gun and the extractors need to be replaced often. Sigs, not to much, but when they do, the gun is usually FUBAR'd.
Rugers? Often. and they are glunky. Smith & Wesson is the easiest company to deal with, by far, when it comes to service or getting parts. I have a 3914, 5967, 4505, 4566, and a 41, and about a dozen or so revolvers. I see no need to own any other make (except for Cowboy shooting).
NOTE: My comments absolutely do not apply to the Sigma.
Rugers? Often. and they are glunky. Smith & Wesson is the easiest company to deal with, by far, when it comes to service or getting parts. I have a 3914, 5967, 4505, 4566, and a 41, and about a dozen or so revolvers. I see no need to own any other make (except for Cowboy shooting).
NOTE: My comments absolutely do not apply to the Sigma.
Phil Degraves
New member
Also, the trigger reset after the first shot is faster than on any other make. The only one that comes close is the Glock. I have had 39s and 59s in the past. I never had a malfunction with either, and I put a lot of rounds through them.
S&W autos are fine by me. Until I discovered Glocks, my usual carry gun was a 3913. I took the marksmanship test for my concealed handgun license with a 639. I also enjoy my 645 and 4516. All have proven themselves well-made and reliable.
I actually don't mind magazine safeties, either on Smiths or BHPs. I do kinda mind the oversized recurved trigger guards Smith used to use (and thankfully got rid of), and the very straight backstraps on a lot of models. But I can live with both features.
I actually don't mind magazine safeties, either on Smiths or BHPs. I do kinda mind the oversized recurved trigger guards Smith used to use (and thankfully got rid of), and the very straight backstraps on a lot of models. But I can live with both features.
My S&W 4516-1 will out shoot your (whatever you like)!
Just kidding.
I really do like the 4516-1 though. It (mine anyway) is 100% reliable and groups tighter at 50 meters than my Colt MKIV Series 70 Gov't Mdl.
BTW, S&W's 945 offers the 1911 fan the opportunity to have his cake and eat it too.
------------------
~Blades~
I really do like the 4516-1 though. It (mine anyway) is 100% reliable and groups tighter at 50 meters than my Colt MKIV Series 70 Gov't Mdl.
BTW, S&W's 945 offers the 1911 fan the opportunity to have his cake and eat it too.
------------------
~Blades~
Hey Murray,
How do you carry that 3913 in the summer?
What part of the country are you in?
I've been looking at the 3913 for sometime, but have a problem with 9mm Parabellum. The gun is just to sweet to ignor though.
As for me, I have two Smith & Wesson autos in 10mm Automatic. A 1006 and 1086. Both wonderful guns. The 1086 is like a .41 Magnum revolver. Excellent!
- Anthony
How do you carry that 3913 in the summer?
What part of the country are you in?
I've been looking at the 3913 for sometime, but have a problem with 9mm Parabellum. The gun is just to sweet to ignor though.
As for me, I have two Smith & Wesson autos in 10mm Automatic. A 1006 and 1086. Both wonderful guns. The 1086 is like a .41 Magnum revolver. Excellent!
- Anthony
glockorama
New member
I have had a S&W 5904 for years and it has been an EXCELLENT pistol. Accurate, comfortable to shoot, and has NEVER jammed or had any malfunction or breakage of any kind. Poeple who stomp on S&W auto's are arrogant fools who are talking out there back sides. My .02.
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