Anybody Use #9 or Scott 4100 in 38 Super?

[Shadow9mm]

It depends on which burn rate chart you look at. Western shows #9 as faster than 2400.

Charts do change and vary.

What do you mean they ONLY have data for 38 Super +P?

In the western manual I linked page number 9, it goes from 9mm +P, to 38super +P, to 357 sig. no standard 38super loads.

Please define what you mean by 'perform well'.

By perform well, I mean it may not fully burn, or burn cleanly. And that it will provide velocities lower than listed and or expected. It should work and be safe but will most likely perform poorly.

Speer seems to think #9 is fine in the 38 Super. They have load data with it for 115, 124 and 147 grain bullets. Their data shows #9 producing the highest speed with 147 grain bullets.

Lyman also has #9 data for the 38 Super.

And Hornady shows #9, like Speer, producing the top speed with 147 grain bullets.

I added some info to my above post with all the data I have from my sources.

As you noted #9 seem to perform well with heavier projectiles, as was my experience with #7 in 9mm....

 

[Shadow9mm]

rc

Like I said, if you have published data and want to give it a try, go for it. I listed the data I have. If you do some testing I know I would love to hear the results. My apologies if things got hijacked a bit.

To the Mod
Thanks for getting things cleaned up.

 

[rc]

I don't have an exact published load but I didn't for 32 magnum either. and 4100 worked great in a stout load under 115 grain cast bullets. I am planning to use up some plated ranier 158s that are 357 and heavy for caliber which will help with combustion of the slow powder. They shot lousy in 357 mag without a cannelure to get a good roll crimp but they have a rounded shoulder so they should load and feed OK in 38 super where a taper crimp overcomes the lack of cannelure on these bullets. I found data for about 10 grains of #9 in speer 13 and AA says you can safely use #9 data for 4100 which is a smidge slower. I used some 357, 158 cast LRN already in 38 super with 231 and they worked good. They were cast for 38 special but the bullets worked great in the super. I will use Rem 7.5 primers with 4100 because they are magnum small rifle primers. I'll try to get some rounds assembled in the next week and collect chronograph data. It will end the debate weather or not 4100 is suitable for loading warm 38 super with heavy bullets.

 

[rc]

Well, I had mixed results.
4" Pro Carry averaged 983 with a standard deviation of 24. Recoil is pretty stout. I think the mass of the powder and slow burn are affecting the cycle rate and recoil. Accuracy was actually pretty good.
5" Kimber Target yielded 1029 with a standard deviation of about 16. So is the powder unsuitable? Maybe if unlocking pressure is still too high with the slow burn. I can probably get close to those speeds with a lot less 231 or universal clays and have less kick and blast. The loads took two guns normally pleasant to shoot and made them unpleasant to shoot.

 

[reddog81]

In the western manual I linked page number 9, it goes from 9mm +P, to 38super +P, to 357 sig. no standard 38super loads.

By perform well, I mean it may not fully burn, or burn cleanly. And that it will provide velocities lower than listed and or expected. It should work and be safe but will most likely perform poorly.

There is no standard 38 Super. There is 38 ACP and .38 Super +P. 38 Super +P has the +P designation by default since the case dimensions for 38 ACP and 38 Super/38 Super +P are identical. Every 38 Super case has the +P designation.

FWIW The vast majority of load data provided doesn't fully burn.

 

[Shadow9mm]

There is no standard 38 Super. There is 38 ACP and .38 Super +P. 38 Super +P has the +P designation by default since the case dimensions for 38 ACP and 38 Super/38 Super +P are identical. Every 38 Super case has the +P designation.

FWIW The vast majority of load data provided doesn't fully burn.

Clear, some of my manuals only list is as 38super.

 

[Unclenick]

You can read the history of the cartridges naming in the Wikipedia entry on it. I understand from the descriptions that the "Super" in 38 Super Auto, as it was named when it was introduced in the 1920s, was intended to alert users to the fact it's pressure was higher than the older 38 Auto load. +P was added in 1974, probably just because that is a more universally recognized indicator of an extra-pressure loading, but they kept the "Super" designation as well, creating a redundant designation. It continues to cause confusion. If you look in Hodgdon's load data, they have separate listings for 38 Super and 38 Super +P. There is no difference in the pressures involved. It is just that they imported old Winchester data that was under the 38 Super name and either someone organizing the data didn't know or a lawyer advised them not to change its name or it was left as-is in disgruntlement over Hodgdon's dispute with Olin for Olin's failure to keep it's commitment to keep pressure testing up to date on the powders Hodgdon distributes for them under the Winchester name. I don't know which.