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Anybody Use #9 or Scott 4100 in 38 Super?
- Thread starter rc
- Start date
Only loads I have ever heard you could substitute data with were the same powders under different brand names. Like hp-38 and w231. Heard of this with a couple powders but never heard of this with #9 and 4100. You should never substitute load data.
I tried #7 in 9mm. Worked well with 124s. was too slow for 115s. No velocity increase in the last 1grain up to max if I remember correctly. Not sure how much slower #9 is.
If there's listed loads I'd give it a try.
I tried #7 in 9mm. Worked well with 124s. was too slow for 115s. No velocity increase in the last 1grain up to max if I remember correctly. Not sure how much slower #9 is.
If there's listed loads I'd give it a try.
4100 is a 410 shotgun powder like H110 and I've ready you can use #9 data because it's a tad slower. I've tried it in 32 mag and it's a good magnum class powder. Just wanting to see if anyone has loaded powder as slow as #9 in 38 super. Speer #13 has a load for #9 with 147 grain bullets and Lyman 48 has a load with 158 grain bullets and #9.
4100 waaaaay too slow.
Full case under 115gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 40% unburned
Full case under 147gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 35% unburned
#9 in same condition also too slow and over pressures (weird)
98% case under 147gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 30% unburned/MAX's Pressure
Best for combined effect (in order):
Shooters World Major Pistol
Accurate No.7
Alliant POWER PISTOL
Vihtavuori 3N38
Vihtavuori 3N37
Full case under 115gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 40% unburned
Full case under 147gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 35% unburned
#9 in same condition also too slow and over pressures (weird)
98% case under 147gr w/ 5" barrel leaves 30% unburned/MAX's Pressure
Best for combined effect (in order):
Shooters World Major Pistol
Accurate No.7
Alliant POWER PISTOL
Vihtavuori 3N38
Vihtavuori 3N37
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OK, sounds like you've tried the combination enough to know. I don't have those powders you listed but I do have other more suitable powders. I will save the 4100 for where it's more applicable.
I think Mehavey is just quoting Quickload output. That's not actually using the powders.
4100 is a 410 shotgun powder like H110 and I've ready you can use #9 data because it's a tad slower. I've tried it in 32 mag and it's a good magnum class powder. Just wanting to see if anyone has loaded powder as slow as #9 in 38 super. Speer #13 has a load for #9 with 147 grain bullets and Lyman 48 has a load with 158 grain bullets and #9.
Hodgdon says H110 is a pistol powder. It says so on the label.
https://shop.hodgdon.com/hodgdon/hodgdon-h110
Accurate 4100, if that is the same as Scott 4100, is also a pistol powder.
https://shop.hodgdon.com/accurate/accurate-4100r
Accurate powders for 38 Super:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-accurate-38-super-loads/326242
Powders for fast 38 Super:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160
Best for combined effect (in order):
Shooters World Major Pistol
Accurate No.7
Alliant POWER PISTOL
Vihtavuori 3N38
Vihtavuori 3N37
Do you reload 38 Super, and have you used those powders? Thanks.
I tried #7 in 9mm. Worked well with 124s. was too slow for 115s. No velocity increase in the last 1grain up to max if I remember correctly.
Those are oddball results because A#7 is used in 9 Major.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/how-to-use-9-major-in-a-short-barrel/
So I was running a 4in barrel a 4.5 or 5in might have made all the difference. Also I was using significantly lower charges, I believe maxing out at 8.6g of #7.Those are oddball results because A#7 is used in 9 Major.
https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2018/1/9/how-to-use-9-major-in-a-short-barrel/
Based on a few things I have learned recemtly, #7 and a few other powders like to be pushed hard, max loads or high pressure.
Had good luck with it with the 124s, but with my 115s in a 4in barrel I had no velocity increases after 8.0g up to 8.6. Think the heavier bullet gave me better burn.
Shadow9mm, do you shoot and/or have you loaded 38 Super?
Ahh, the passive aggressive comment that will be used to try and make my statements irrelevant.
No, I do not load 38super. But I do and have been loading for a while now, and am or have loaded for the following. 9mm, 38spl, 357mag, 44spl, 44mag, 45acp, 223rem, 308win, 30-06, and 30-06 garand specific.
As I stated, I have used #7 in 9mm with a 4in barrel. I had poor results with 115g and good results with 124s and why I believed that was the case. I stated that #9 was slower.
I never said not to try it. I said the exact opposite. I said, if you have load data for it, give it a try.
I had a similar experience with 44spl and H110 recently. I had data, but was advised it would not work well. They were right, it did not work well, but it did work, and I'm glad I tried it.
Do I think #9 will work, yes I do. Do I think it will perform well based on my experience with slower powders in auto handgun cartridges, probably not. But I think its worth a try.
The only thing I advised against is substituting powders. It's a bad idea with the few exceptions where it's the exact same powder made by a different manufacturer.
P.S. I have no doubt #7 runs well In the 9mm major. However all I can relate is my experience with sammi spec 9mm. In 9mm, within published load data, with 115g fmj, in a 4in barrel, I got no velocity increase from 8.0 to the 8.6g max listed in my manual. When I tried with 124g bullets I got up into the low 1100s with consistent velocity gains the whole way up.
Shadow9mm, have you ever used A#9?
What do you mean by 'perform well'?
By perform well, I mean it will ignite and burn, however it will most likely not fully burn or burn cleanly, and provide poor velocity.
No, but I have been researching #9 for use in 357mag and 44mag for bit now. Going to buy a pound of that and 2400 to start testing with next time I get to the gun shop, hopefully Saturday.
#9 is considerably slower than #7 but not quite into H110 territory. Its slower than 2400 and N105. Consensus was divided as to whether or not #9 needed, or performed better with magnum primers.
Here is western powders load data. They only have data for 38 super +P, which does not include #9 or 4100, and on page 5 they list suitable powder for 38 super.
https://accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web.pdf
Suitable for 38 super per western in their lineup.
Ramshot ZIP
#2
Ramshot Silhouette
Ramshot true blue
#5
#7
#9 and 4100 are listed but not marked as suitable for 38 super on westerns chart.
Data I could find for #9 in 38 super, Hopefully this is a help.
Lee 2021
lists no loads for 38 super with #9
Lee 2007, a bit out dated
100g jacketed with #9, Start 12.2, max 13.5
115g jacketed with #9, Start 11.7, max 13.0
115g lead with #9, Start 11.3, max 12.5
124g jacketed with #9, Start 11.3, max 12.5
125g lead with #9, Start 10.8, max 12.0
130g jacketed with #9, start 10.7, max 11.9
130g lead With #9, start 10.4, max 11.5
130g plated With #9, start 9.9, max 11.0
140g lead with #9, start 9.9, max 11.0
145g lead with #9, start 9.5, max 10.5
147g jacketed with #9, start 9.2 max 10.2
150g jacketed with #9, start 8.7, max 9.7
151g plated with #9, start 7.7, max 8.6
158g jacketed with #9, start 8.7, max9.7
160g lead with #9, start 8.6, max 9.5
Speer 2018
115g with #9, start 11.7, max 12.7 compressed
124g with #9, start 11.0, max 12.0 ccompressed
125g with #9, start 11.0, max 12.0 compressed
147g with #9, start 9.5, max 10.5 compressed
Lyman2018
158g lead with #9, Start 8.9, max 9.9 compressed
Hornady 10th edition
147g with #9, Start 7.9, Max 10.7
Hornady 11th edition
147g with #9, Start 7.9g max 10.7g
Sierra
no loads with #9
Western (accurate)
no load data with #9
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4100 is renamed by Ramshot as Enforcer. Enforcer is quite a bit slower than AA9, but faster than H110/296. Enforcer/4100 is a true ball powder and does require a magnum primer (as does AA9). AA9 is identical burn rate to 2400, but 2400 lights nicely with a standard primer. This is all based on my experience with these powders in 44mag - I don't know squat about 38super.
#9 is considerably slower than #7 but not quite into H110 territory. Its slower than 2400 and N105.
It depends on which burn rate chart you look at. Western shows #9 as faster than 2400.
Here is western powders load data. They only have data for 38 super +P, which does not include #9 or 4100, and on page 5 they list suitable powder for 38 super.
What do you mean they ONLY have data for 38 Super +P?
Please define what you mean by 'perform well'.
Speer seems to think #9 is fine in the 38 Super. They have load data with it for 115, 124 and 147 grain bullets. Their data shows #9 producing the highest speed with 147 grain bullets.
Lyman also has #9 data for the 38 Super.
And Hornady shows #9, like Speer, producing the top speed with 147 grain bullets.