Anybody ever have a gun that slowly grew on them?

[MLeake]

I'm encountering this phenomenon now.

Last year, I bought a used Browning HiPower MkII and sent it off for some customization at Novak's. A few months later, it came back as ordered. Beautiful pistol; had all the following:

Carry bevel
Radiused and tuned trigger
Bar-Sto match barrel with recessed crown
G-10 Spegel grips
Novak low mount night sights
Extra wide thumb safety
Beavertail

I may have forgotten a feature or two.

Point is, it's a very nice looking, good-feeling pistol.

Edit: I failed to post pics in the thread opener, so for starters here is the pistol:

Then, to my chagrin, I found that I didn't shoot it as well as either my CBOB .45, or several of my other pistols. It shot well enough, but I had thought I'd drive tacks with it, and that wasn't the case. Groupings were decent, but I had a definite tendency to launch a flyer while shooting the pistol.

So, it went into the safe, and got listed for sale on TFL. Had only one semi-serious inquiry, but to sell it at a reasonable loss I had to ask more than anybody was willing to pay.

TFL member Sarge (or was it KraigWy? May have been both...) started a thread about "Learn to shoot it!" The point was that some people can't choose a gun, and will be issued one, so they had better learn to shoot the darned thing. It was a very good point.

That in mind, I took the BHP out last week, and started running some IDPA type drills with it. Interestingly enough, while I don't like it so much for standing at a firing line and shooting targets, that gun is very, very nice for speed drills and for shooting on the move. Go figure.

I still had a few flyers. I think it's just a matter of getting used to a hinged trigger with as little travel as the BHP has; all my other hinged triggers have been on revolvers, or DA/SA or DAO autos (or Glocks). Flyers tend to not be on the first shot in a string, so I'm pretty sure it's a matter of engaging the trigger too quickly on my part.

In hindsight, it may be a very good thing that the pistol didn't sell. I think I may take it to my next IDPA match, and see how it does.

Anybody else have a pistol (semi or revolver) that they learned to really like, after an initial rough spot?

 

[B. Lahey]

Mine was a hi-power as well. Growing up, my only exposure to them was old, beat up examples with the ridiculous antiaircraft ladder sight. To me, they looked goofy.

But then I found a more recent example for a price I couldn't refusr. I gradually came to enjoy it a lot, and learned to shoot it fairly acceptably. Now even the ancient ones with the weird bits and pieces are very much growing on me.

 

[EAJ702]

GLOCK 19 Safe Action Trigger Trainning, afterwhich the 30 was a breeze.

 

[aarondhgraham]

My Beretta NEOS,,,

When I first got it I hated the gun,,,
I was sure I had completely wasted $230.00

I had it for almost a year before I started shooting it extensively,,,
It took a couple of bricks but I finally got used to the grip,,,
Now it's a mainstay when I just want to go out plinking.

It channels my inner Flash Gordon.

Aarond

 

[Amin Parker]

For me its not a particular gun but rather a type of handgun ie. Revolvers.

I feel i sort of "gratuated" to shoot them, or became worthy. I started hitting and speeding up with them almost by accident.

This is also true about me and the 1911 pistol. Once i passed the Hi Cap phase i graduated to the 1911. The truth about most shooters is that you can only shoot SO fast with another pistol, the average Joe must move to a 1911 when the talent runs out and he/she still needs to shoot faster. Thats just the truth.

So newbies must be careful what they say. As you get better and more experienced you will one day end up owning and shooting the pistol or revolver you think is outdated now.

 

[MLeake]

Actually, Amin, my times shooting a PX4 at IDPA are about 20% faster than my times shooting a CBOB 1911... Some days, 25% faster. It's not just capacity; 9mm allows faster recovery in many cases.

So, the 1911 has the trigger in its favor (it's my favorite trigger), but has recovery time and (unless one adds a bevel to the grip) slower reload times, at least for me.

 

[shortwave]

...that they really learned to like, after an initial rough spot?

I don't know about really learning to like, but I can tell you I'm currently in a 'rough spot' with trying to get used to a gun.

Without prejudice, I'm earnestly trying to get used to a Glock. A Gen 2, G22.

I'm really trying to get used to the horrid trigger(4.5lb disconnect), the grip angle and in general, the feel of plastic in my hands when shooting. The plastic feel has been partially cured by bicycle inner-tube on the grip.

I've shot many a Glock pistols and hit ok with them, didn't own them. But when you own a gun, it kind of becomes a quest to get as proficient with it as you are with other guns in the arsenal... sooo the rough spot will continue till I can shoot it as well as the Beretta 96D. Course, understanding that the trigger on the Glock will never be as crisp as the Beretta's, I will get as best as I can with the Glock.

Still not satisfied .

 

[MLeake]

So I took the HiPower out again today.

I figured I'd go out in the back pasture, and run some more drills with the Novak BHP.

Started out doing draws to failure drill (Mozambique, if you prefer), 25ft, reasonably fast. 105rds fired, 70 to chest, 35 to head; 2 in the throat were low from the head:

Then, because the MkII is not supposed to shoot +P, I had to decide between 147gr subsonic (Win Ranger SXT, in this case, although I also have some Hornady TAP) and 124gr Gold Dot. So, shot 15rds of each, from 25ft offhand, to see how they'd compare as far as point of aim/point of impact and grouping. Since I'd asked Novak's to regulate the gun for 124gr GD, I expected it might shoot better. The 147gr SXT is in the chest, and the 124gr GD in the head:

I realized when I started shooting the SXT that it was hitting high, so the first several should almost be considered a separate group, as I then pulled down my POA to try and adjust the group. The GD was aimed at the 0, and I figured it would be slightly low since I asked Novak to regulate for 124gr at 25yds.

Here's a close-up of the 124gr GD group:

I can live with that. The pistol and its two spare Mec-Gar 15rd mags are now stoked with 124gr GD standard pressure.

Anyway, I then wanted to test a few more things out. First, I decided to see how the BHP was for point-firing. Not meaning to stir up any controversy, but I wanted to compare point-firing (which some laud and some demonize) with Massad Ayoob's "Stressfire flash picture" that he recommends for ranges less than 7 yards, where the pistol isn't quite brought to eye level, and all three sights are viewed as a sort of triangle, where the front sight appears to sit just above the rear sights and the slide.

So, from 5 yards, here's 30rds using point-fire, where I just punched the gun toward the target and pulled the trigger. Each was fired individually, not as part of a string:

Note: Two rounds impacted the black, about an inch over the head. I was punching and pointing with the intention of hitting the 0 in the chest, so.... lesson learned, if I have to point fire, at short range, I can put over half in the vital area on a static target; but I can expect a fair percentage to hit non-vitals, or even miss entirely.

Next, here's 30rds, fired individually, using Mas' technique from 5 yds (both methods were shot using the right hand, only):

Lesson learned, for just a split instant's time, I can get a definite improvement in accuracy, even at short range.

Last, I wanted to incorporate some triangular movement, that we use in IDPA drills sometimes. The back points of my triangle were about 10yds from the target, and the apex was about 5yds. Shot 110rds (burning up the last of my ammo can's supply) alternating clockwise and counter-clockwise around the triangle, shooting on the move:

Did I mention this pistol is growing on me?

As an afterthought, I shot a lot more than what is pictured here. I spent a fair amount of ammo on point-shooting, because I wanted to give it a fair trial; the pic I posted was after shooting 90rds worth of point fire.

I had shot 30rds using the Stressfire flash picture, before shooting the sequence pictured here, with the same thought. I didn't want to compare the two, totally cold.

Have I mentioned that I'm actually kind of happy nobody bought the pistol from me?

Cheers,

M

 

[shortwave]

Good shooting MLeake.

Don't blame you for keeping it stoked with the 124gr. GD's.

 

[MLeake]

Thanks, Shortwave.

I'll have to take this pistol to the next IDPA event I can make. Unfortunately, there are at least three guys in my local club who will take me years to beat, if I can ever manage it. (They practice multiple times a week, and they are ridiculously fast.)

Edit: FWIW, I never did adjust to my Glocks, and no longer have them. They really didn't fit my hand, in a painful sense.

 

[chadstrickland]

that is some seriously good shooting bud. I would be lucky to do half that good. Im glad that the pistol has grown on you and all the time and money invested into the custom stuff wasn't wasted.

Hope you get many years of good service from it

 

[MLeake]

Thanks, chad; I'm sure I will.

I have mixed feelings about the G-10 grips. On the one hand, they look good, and they have a very positive grip. On the other hand, they have a very positive grip. Think I shot around 500 rounds today, all told, and I stripped some of the outer layer of skin off my right thumb at around the 350 mark.

But that's ok, I'm heading back overseas, where I have access to a pretty nice military gym, so I just need to lift some weights and build my calluses back up. Try and lose another 10-20lbs while I'm at it...

 

[chadstrickland]

Lol I know the feeling on the weight loss.

Just trying to get a understanding of those grips because I am not familiar with them. Are they similar to knurling ( like done on a lathe ) if they are then you may be able to take a piece of emery clothe and lightly rub the tips or edges of the grip and it will lose that sharpness but remain a good solid grip nonetheless. ( we cheated in machine technology classes when we put to much pressure on the knurl )

Keep in mind I don't know what those grips are exactly but we also did it to the checkering on a friend of mine 1911...those babies where sharp at first.

 

[orionengnr]

Good shooting.
To answer your question:
1911s in general, and larger steel 1911s in particular.

The 1911 was the first handgun I ever shot as a 6 year old kid (dad's WWII 1911). It was also the first handgun I ever bought, about 17 years later. The one I bought was well used and not the best example of the breed (but the price was right).

Thereafter, I was seduced by HK P7s and double stack 9mms for a while, and only came back to ol' slabsides about ten years ago.

Since then, I've bought and sold about 25 1911s. Many have been alloy framed and sub-4", and for a while that arrangement worked for both of us. My primary purpose for owning handguns is shooting and carrying, and this configuration makes carry fairly easy.

In the last two years or so I have re-kindled my love of the steel framed 1911, although I still prefer the Commander size to the Government size. Shooting it once a week and carrying it every day has brought us closer. While it gets a bit heavy after a day's carrying, perhaps an S&W Scandium framed Bobtailed Commander lives somewhere in my future...

 

[MLeake]

chad, G-10 is like zytel, a sort of resin that is often used to make knife handles. It also feels similar to a rough Micarta.

One of its main strengths is that it retains non-slip capability when wet. Water, blood, etc. Good characteristic for pistol grips and knife handles.

My Busse HG55 knife has a G-10 handle, IIRC.

I don't think it would sand out that easily, and I think if I could somehow do that, I would be defeating the purpose.

Better off re-building some callus. That comes in handy with my .44s, too.

orionengr, one of these days I need to pick up a plain Jane, Series 70 Colt, to go along with the DW CBOB and Fusion 10mm Longslide.

 

[chadstrickland]

I have seen those grips before. And yes if you want callus. Start deadlifting heavy weight with a new bar with new knurls on it. They will come as I am sure you know. Also sounds like someone is getting a little cough cough "old" cough... I but its all good.


Speaking of pistols that had to grow on me...glocks perhaps but I had to grow into my 1911. I loved it from the moment I held it. Just a little big for a kids hand

 

[MLeake]

Well, I can't remember if it was Mark Twain, Winston Churchill, or George Burns who said, "the only thing worse than growing older is the alternative". But it was a good point.

And don't worry... If you survive long enough, you'll get old someday, too.

 

[Sevens]

I bought a Taurus PT-99AF in 1994 because I knew the Clinton era was going to attack hi-caps. I went in the purchase on the wrong foot in the first place because I had been reading Jeff Cooper for about 7 or 8 years and the very idea of buying a double action, double stack 9mm pistol was just plain hard for me to do. But I came in to some cash and I figured it was now or never because of the upcoming laws. (indeed, they arrived)

So I had my pistol and of course, I fed it all the $6 per box of factory 115gr FMJ I could afford and it was the only firearm I owned that really gave me stoppages and FTF's and etc. It was big, huge, fat, not all that accurate and though it wouldn't jam with every magazine, it also couldn't get through a box of ammo.

So it was always my whipping boy, the one firearm that I had and didn't really like. Even so, it was cheap to shoot for a center fire and so I kept shooting it and never really enjoying it all too much.

Ammo was cheap and I was having a blast handloading for all my other calibers so I never really considered handloading for the redheaded stepchild Taurus. And then one day maybe 5 or so years ago, I finally grabbed some 9mm dies and figured I'd give it a twirl at the bench.

I dinked around with a few different loads and no matter what I concocted -- they all fed, fired, ejected and kept rolling with aplomb. And the accuracy? Meh, it's not a target pistol, that's for sure, but for what it is, it shoots as well as it needs to.

I stuck to 125 grain bullets... many FMJ, many plated and many more cast LRN. The old Taurus now seems to be very nearly ROCK-SOLID as a work horse on the range. It doesn't give me ANY grief over my ammo and of course... it also hasn't been fed a factory round in about 5 years.

There's nothing special about it, but it sure does run and it does what I ask it to do. I would absolutely stake my life on it if I felt the need... I wouldn't carry it, it's larger than I'd like for that role. But it's a pretty darn good handgun and both it's DA and SA trigger are smoother, lighter and break cleaner than my buddy's new Beretta 92F (or whatever it's called these days... 9mm with the rail)

I'm not head over heels in love with my old PT-99AF, but it certainly has earned my respect after quite a rough beginning.

 

[cwok]

Yes ...

I bought a Hi-Point .45 just to see for myslef how they functioned.

I installed that odd looking 'peep' sight that is included, and fired a planned 300 Plus rounds to check for reliability.

About six Fail to Eject in the first three-hundred rounds, but by the time I was done the darn thing was shooting extremely well.

End result - I still shoot it every couple of time I go to the range and I keep thinking about installing a 'peep' on one of my other guns.
It may be that the sight just works better for my vision.
I'm 66 and to use my reading glasses when I shoot so I can align my sights clearly

Note:

• Does not apply to anyone else, particularly those whose Hi-Points jammed every time they didn't explode or melt or diassemble themselves.
• Installing that peep is a potential pain (easy to lose a spring).
• Yes, detail cleaning is pain - it's an inexpensive gun that shoots well (mine anyway), but for maintenance -- its opposite-land of anything John M. Browning ever designed.

Did I mention, shoots well and inexpensive.
.

 

[old bear]

Mleake, gotta love your H.P. I had one years ago, a t seried, that I made the mistake selling to a friend of my Dads. I really regret that.

The one handgun that has really grown on me is my S&W 586 4". I bought it on a whim as it was cheap and was a .357 Magnum. From the first time I shot it I was impressed and even more so every time I shoot it. I like it so much I'm almost embarrassed to admit it may well replace my M-19 as my main go to revolver.