any thoughts on 5.7x28 round?

[Hornett]

So, there is a question I have been dieing to ask.

If you take the SS190 bullet and load it into a 22 magnum case, don't you have the same armor piercing round? Why is the five seven so special, except that the pistol is really cool looking and holds 20 rounds?

Once the round leaves the barrel it's a xx grain piece of lead (or whatever material for the ss190 (unobtanium, I suppose) ) travelling at xxxx fps.

 

[p99guy]

lol Tac forums and lightfighter is the ENTIRE source of bad thoughts on the 5.7 ( you can allways tell a Fackerite or GKR deciple(cult member)...but you cant tell them much) There is even a shooting touted on there that grows in the number of rounds each time its told ( the old 300rds to the chest and the felon said "Dont taze me bro" ooops I mean "stop shooting me") while a colorful story it didnt happen.
A policeman named in one rendition of it... actually showed up on Glocktalk and cleaned house and threatend
legal action against the site.....wow those stories got pulled off of there quickly. but they still pop up like a reoccuring bad smell, with the same root source each time. Funny how the Doc and Fackler do paid consulting for the compitition( bias, oooooooh shurly not)

I love how the U.S. Secret service told Fackler to in a nice way, F' off when it came to the 5.7x28 because what they found in their testing in no way
matched his.( and they adopted it anyway)

Hornet, that would be a visably funky looking .22 mag round that wouldnt fit in a .22mag magazine....while the grain weight is simular due to the aluminum core in that 5.7 bullet..the physical size of the bullet is slightly longer than a M193 55gr 5.56Nato bullet.
balance isnt the same either....22mag does its work nose forward and relies on mushrooming, 5.7 relies on Yaw, which it does after 1-2 inches of penetration in flesh

 

[buzz_knox]

I love how the U.S. Secret service told Fackler to in a nice way, F' off when it came to the 5.7x28 because what they found in their testing in no way
matched his.( and they adopted it anyway)

Do you have documentation showing this, or was the "up yours" simply implied by their purchase of P90s?

 

[p99guy]

No, he actually tried to inject himself into thier decision making, and was indeed told by them that they didnt agree with him, and that thier testing didnt come to the same conclusions as his.. and thanks for your concern(now go away) They didnt just simply ignore him and adopt the weapon.

Its a funny thing that even the worlds armies( to include the U.S. Military) are not capable of determining what will be adequite to defend themselves with, according to the organization Facker was instremental in starting.
(anyone that dont agree with them is oviously incapable of determining what is effective because they dont use the same scientific method and controls as Fackler/Roberts)
I have never seen such a small group so full of themselves ( I have directly told "Doc"Roberts D.D.S., this when he and I got into it on Glocktalk)

 

[Medula Oblongata]

Brassfetcher's testing is in direct opposition to other studies. Scientific studies from the RCMP, USSS, US Army, etc. Brassfetcher claims 9-10" of penetration with the 16" carbine (they also mis-stated the velocity and projectile weight of the tested bullet, showing one factory load while testing the other), where every other credible source shows 12" from the 5" pistol.

Fiocchi does indeed load ONE round in 5.7x28mm from their Ozark Missouri plant. However FN loads all others in Belgium.

There is even one aftermarket manufacturer of 5.7x28mm ammunition, which has some extremely innovative offerings; all of which exceed factory performance and energy on target by approximately 35 - 50%

One thing about Fackler and his 'testing' is that he was employed at the time (and still is) by FN's major competitor in the US market.. Sig Sauer. Anyone want to believe a Chevy employees 'findings' on Ford automobiles?

 

[p99guy]

They also bully gun writers...its either agree with them or face assaults on their reputation by the IWBA. anyone that dont agree with them gets stompted on...Ayoob gets talked about horribly for not agreeing(there are others in the same boat, and would have no doubt gone after Elmer Keith and Skeeter Skelton were they still alive and had they not towed the jello line)

 

[buzz_knox]

No, he actually tried to inject himself into thier decision making, and was indeed told by them that they didnt agree with him, and that thier testing didnt come to the same conclusions as his.. and thanks for your concern(now go away) They didnt just simply ignore him and adopt the weapon.

Where did this information come from?

 

[ShipWreck]

Come check out www.fnforum.net if ya wanna learn more. A member did a ballistics tube test last week and posted some photos.

I have a PS90 and 5-7 handgun. I like them a lot!

 

[SamHouston]

I have a chance to pickup a FN 5.7 from an estate that I have not seen as of yet. If I provide a serial number can anyone tell me the version of this particular version? What would be a fair price for a good used one?

 

[benny27]

fn-five seven

I found some interesting info on this pistol and the 5.7x28 round at http://www.savvysurvivor.com/fn_5.htm

 

[PSP]

I have a chance to pickup a FN 5.7 from an estate that I have not seen as of yet. If I provide a serial number can anyone tell me the version of this particular version? What would be a fair price for a good used one?

If you go to this link you'll see the IOM with it's different trigger guard
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg18-e.htm

Compare that picture to the one a few posts above and you'll see the USG trigger guard shape. I've seen used guns for $1000 (yesterday), versus the $700 I paid last saturday. Somewhere in there is a price. I think I got lucky at $700 (and some ammo thrown in), but remember this... CDNN has new for $840.

 

[ShipWreck]

I have a chance to pickup a FN 5.7 from an estate that I have not seen as of yet. If I provide a serial number can anyone tell me the version of this particular version? What would be a fair price for a good used one?

I saw you post that question at the Fn Forum. Looks like U got some answers there.

 

[p99guy]

8.5 Synthetic simulants
The tissue simulants and their preparation methods have not been standardized making
comparison of the reported results somewhat difficult and reducing their power of evidence.To reach the goal of comprehensive and surgery compatible wound ballistic simulation a lot
needs to be done. Validation of simulation materials is still at an embryonic stage with only
muscle and skin tissue simulants having been validated. Bone simulants have not been
validated with human bones. As the purpose is not to simulate wound ballistic events on a pig
the simulant system must be brought as close to a human being as possible. It has too often
been taken for granted that a pig resembles a human being. An example of this is the specific
gravity of muscle tissue quoted to be 1.06. It actually is that of a 100 kg landrace pig. Human
muscle tissue specific gravity is 1.02-1.04. A comprehensive study on the viscoelastic
properties of human tissues needs to be done in order to develop and validate corresponding
simulants.
Wound ballistic testing with tissue simulants cannot be replaced with computer simulation.
Power of evidence and needs of quality assurance require that real bullets must be fired upon
simulated targets. Computer simulation and modelling are, however, important for learning
more about the complex interaction between a projectile and a target. The mathematical
possibilities can far faster help to find better protection and bullet designs than experimental
research only.
Steel spheres have often been used to achieve precise dosage of kinetic energy dissipation
without the unpredictability and added variables of bullet tumbling, deformation and
fragmentation. Too far reaching conclusions from the obtained results should be avoided.Without the effect of tumbling, deformation and fragmentation the spheres show a significant
correlation between the impact energy and tissue destruction [Fackler 1987]. This may have
been occasionally misunderstood as a general law applying to tumbling and deforming bullets
as well.Tissue simulants can be divided into soft tissue, skin, bone and skull simulants. Several
requirements for soft tissue simulants have been presented. [Sellier and Kneubuehl 1994,
Janzon 1997, Berlin et al. 1983, Fackler 1988a and 1988b, Pirlot et al. 2001].

This is from a study done just two years ago(2005) There is nothing so far been done to simulate the different consistancies of the bodies internal organs
(or a agreed upon method of doing so as of yet....Just muscle and skin only, which the only part of the body that would do well to totally simulate would be a side shot though the cheeks of your clinched butt lol)
https://oa.doria.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/2120/woundbal.pdf?sequence=1

 

[Army GI]

My only question is if the 7.62x25 is so great, why has it been dropped for the 9x18 Makarov? If bottlenecked pistol cartridges were so great, then why was the 7.65 Luger necked up to 9mm which is now the most popular pistol caliber in the world?

 

[skeeter1]

When you buy an oddball caliber, you have to know you're taking chances. I'm partial to ones that have been around for a century. Sure, my .22Mag and .357Mag aren't quite that old -- only a half century. Anything newer than that, and I really have no interest. .380, .9mm, .38Super, .45ACP. Maybe I'll include the .40S&W since so many LEs have accepted it. They've all stood the test of time. I have no interest in "wildcat" chamberings. There's no reason when older designs work quite well, are much easier to find, and cost less to boot.

 

[p99guy]

I know, the 5.7 has only been in use 18 years....a rock tied to a stick with animal sinew has been around alot longer and bashed the brains out of more things(and lets not forget one of the original WMD's ...the jawbone of an ass, though much harder to get than a rock on a stick)
(a wildcat is a cartridge made from another by varous means such as necking/reshouldering/shortning etc. , the 5.7 isnt a wildcat of anything, its a military cartridge developed for and by request of NATO and the only thing that keeps it from being adopted by said organization is -Germany, which wants a home grown weapon..the HK 4.6 MP7)

 

[p99guy]

My only question is if the 7.62x25 is so great, why has it been dropped for the 9x18 Makarov? If bottlenecked pistol cartridges were so great, then why was the 7.65 Luger necked up to 9mm which is now the most popular pistol caliber in the world?- Army GI
well Army the russian army changed, they got rid of all the 7.62x25mm submachineguns they used so heavily in WW2 in favor of the Ak47 assault rifle
which left the only weapon still using the cartridge in their arsenal was the TT33 Tokarev....at that time they felt that pistols were back down to being a badge of rank rather than the American that still take sidearms a bit more serious ( to them its the remnant of the old west cowboy movie mentality...they are quick to refer to us a cowboys as a putdown)
That being said the pistol shrunk down to what would be called here..a pocket pistol(the same as the Walther PP series are)
The russian Mafia still loves the 7.62x2 TT33 Tokarev pistol for its ability to shoot though russian police and rivals soft body armor.


The 7.65 Luger launched a 93gr .30 caliber slug at 1240fps...that makes it weaker than the 7.62x25mm and the 9mm Luger AND the 7.63 Mauser as used in the Mauser Broomhandle...I can see why it didnt hold onto its perch.
Though it didnt go away totally, especially in countries that a civy cant own a military caliber like 9mm...You could even get .30 Luger chambered Browning Hi Powers up until the last few years.

 

[Army GI]

Well, that makes some sense,

But if the 7.62 Tokarev is as effective as implied, it's stupid that they went to a weaker pistol round.

Also, if the .30 Luger or whatever was weak, why didn't they just lengthen the case or give it a better charge rather than neck it up to 9mm which gives it less penetration potential?

 

[p99guy]

Like I said, they didnt put much stock in pistols being anything other than a badge of rank(Ak is for fighting , pistol is for shooting a kneeling person in the back of the neck)..hense a token pistol rather than a full size service arm.
As of late they have gone over to a full size 9mm pistol. The Makarov is no longer the current issue service weapon.


2 there was no lenthening the cartridge...it still had to fit in a Luger magazine.
The point was to be able to easily convert a .30 Luger pistol to a 9mm one.( the two cartridges are the same lenth and diameter.

and something brand new on the 5.7 front...Wolf ammo!

RR198 from WOLF:

 

[Army GI]

Holy crap!

1) Where'd you get the fife?
2) Gimme the fife!

Seriously though, where'd you find that, and where can I get some?