Anti-Depressants,Ritalin, and the Draft

[Ala Dan]

scud, from my day's as a L.E.O. (20+years), Loratab 7.5's
were going on the street for $5.00 a pop. An innocent
was likely to get robbed so that some scumbag could
remain "PAIN FREE". Now days these perp's do it legal.
They go to a "mercy hospital" E/R, present their "blue
card" an ole' doc recommends 7.5 Loratab (via the old
script); they walk around the corner and get it filled
for $2.00, cuz they have NO INCOME. That is, until
they hit the street and sell most of the script.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[ATTICUS]

Anti depressant withdrawal tends to make people aggressive, on edge, and possibly violent. Wouldn't want any combat Marines to be that way now would we. People with bi-polar disorder are a completely different story.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Anti depressant withdrawal tends to make people aggressive, on edge, and possibly violent."

The word "tends" is extremely misleading.

There have been scattered reports of such complications, but don't make the mistake of believing that anything even close to the majority of people who take these drugs suffer from withdrawal symptoms.

Virtually any drug, from pain killers to antihistimines to anti-cholesterol drugs to nicotine, can give withdrawal symptoms if stopped "cold turkey."

Ever been around someone who stops smoking cold turkey? It's not pleasant. That's why the most common forms of smoking cessation programs a stepback method.

Unfortunatly, though, there are no absolutely clearcut studies that either prove or disprove a connection between anti-depressant drugs and paranoia, violence, suicide, etc.

Twice I stopped Zoloft cold turkey after taking it for some months, another time I stopped... crap, I can't remember the name of it now, possibly Effexor, maybe Serzone, after taking it for some months.

No withdrawal symptoms.

Unless you consider lack of desire to kill myself, sleeping again (4 weeks without sleep is a pretty ugly thing), and eating again to be withdrawal symptoms.

 

[ATTICUS]

I'm an insomniac also, and have taken a few AD's as sleep aids. Any side effects while taking or not taking is nothing compared to a few days without sleep.

 

[K80Geoff]

Mr Irwin. The citizen Soldier is an American Tradition. Draftees tend to get the job done and get home, have no interest in staying in uniform longer than they have to (Viet Nam is the exception, but that was a political decision).

Our greatest military achievements have been accomplished with armies of Draftees.

A Volunteer army will eventually come back to haunt us. Will eventually become mostly foreigners as the military becomes less and less attractive.

I do however seriously doubt that we will ever see a real draft again.

 

[Jamie Young]

I do however seriously doubt that we will ever see a real draft again.

Keep telling me that Geoff.



Mike,
FWIW From My own personal accounts, I have to humble disagree with most of what you've stated. I've seen the complete opposite with drugs such as Prozac and Welbutrin. I see more Zoloft prescribed now so maybe its not as bad.

It may also depend on the dose that you were originally taking in the first place.

 

[Blackhawk]

SodaPop,

Relax. There won't be another draft unless all our technology quits working, and we're down to rocks and sticks. It's not politically acceptable, and the U.S. doesn't NEED bodies for bags and uniforms anymore.

The reality is that we don't have the need or resources anymore to field huge armies.

Even if we did, it would take years to get through Congress, and the purpose would be something like manning checkpoints.

Sorry, but I'm having a terrible time staying in fairy tale mode.

Just relax....

 

[Mike Irwin]

Mr. K80,

"Mr Irwin. The citizen Soldier is an American Tradition."

What do you think I was driving at with the after my message?

Why do you think I said this?

" I mean, just because the United States put together the most efficient fighting force ever seen during WW II with draftees...."

Poorly worded a sentence as it was (should have read "Just because during WW II the United States put together the most efficient fighting force ever seen with draftees...)

Yes, I got the point.

Yes, I agree with the point.

Yes, I'm reading "Crusade in Europe" by D.D. Eisenhower.

 

[Foxy]

Is Celexa an anti-depressant?

I know a girl who was taking it. Once we went out camping, and she forgot the pills. Hooo boy. Imagine the worst case PMS you can imagine - REALLY abrupt mood swings, nausea, headaches, the whole 9 yards. After seeing that, I'd doubt that there's little to no withdrawal effects from anti-depressants.

I'm not sure that I'd like to be even in an REMF type job with someone like that who was coming off medications.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Soda,

Are you a physician?

Are you a psychiatrist?

Are you a mental health care professional?

How many individuals have you observed who have been taking medications such as these?

How much study have you put into it?

For the record, I was, for about a year at two separate times, taking 300 mg. of Zoloft a day.

I was in a large discussion group (not group therapy, really, just a discussion group) with about 100 to 120 other people who were being treated for depression using a variety of drugs, including SSRIs, MOAIs, and a number who were being treated with tri- and tetra-cyclics.

Those individuals, who were taking the tri- and tetra-cyclics, were the ones who reported the most, and longest lasting, side effects, normally dry mouth, headaches, constipation.

Withdrawal and side effects were continual topics of discussion.

At numerous times the group was addressed by psychiatrists, clinical pharmocologists, once a behaviorial scientist whose work involved depressed individuals and their families, etc.

In other words, a really well rounded group.

Prozac was, for about 10 years, the most prescribed anti-depressant in the United States (and I believe the most prescribed AD in the world). To the best of my knowledge, several million people world wide have taken it. So far, I believe that there have been fewer than 100 cases of people claiming that Prozac caused the recipient to become anti-social and/or dangerous to a degree of causing himself or others harm (the most famous, of course, being the printing plant worker in Louisville).

To date, there has been no definitive pharmocological link between the drug and the actions of those individuals.

Currently Welbutrin is more prescribed as a smoking cessation aid than as a anti-depressant, although it is heavily prescribed for that (Zyban and Welbutrin SR are the same drug, but simply have different names. Yet, Zyban is more expensive. Go figure.)

My Mother took Zyban for several months to attempt to stop smoking. It was very effective for her, except that it caused severe nausea -- the most common side effect for Zyban/Welbutrin.

Anyway, I don't know what your background is, but I'm laying out what my experience and my continuing research into this subject has given me.

I've been hit by severe depression twice in my life.

I'm under absolutely no illusions that it could hit again.

And I sure as **** intend to stay current on EVERYTHING that is happening in this arena.

 

[Blackhawk]

I'm not sure that I'd like to be even in an REMF type job with someone like that who was coming off medications.

You wouldn't be. They would be "clean" before Basic Training was 1/2 way through. If not, they would be "recycled" so they could go through Basic again, unless they can wangle an unfit for military service discharge, which is an easy way to screw up the rest of your life, but not quite as bad as a felony conviction ....

Since platoons are in competition within the company and companies compete with one another, there's not much tolerance for screwups, especially within the platoon level. Shall we just say that individuals have a strong motivation to NOT be screwups...?

 

[K80Geoff]

Mr Irwin

OK OK I'm sorry

 

[ATTICUS]

Soldiers are expected to be responsible and not lose things important to their survival...gas masks for example. I don't see why a thirty day supply of pills stashed in a pocket would be any different. I'm sure that occasional situations might arise where a soldier would lose their medication, but I don't see a need to exclude all people on that basis. Besides...there are many factors that determine a persons reaction to changes in medication.

 

[DD698]

Armed Forces service

As the need for manpower increases the standards decrease. I had two MDs look in each ear and when they didnt see each other I was qualified. My son on the otherhand was rejected due to dry skin brought about by his acne medicine. After a 2 week period without the meds he returned to the induction center and was taken in.

 

[Mike Irwin]

Foxy,

Yex, Celexa is an anti-depressant, and a fairly new one at that, having been approved by the FDA in 1998.

It's also one of the most common mentioned when the term withdrawal is mentioned. The evidence is pretty good right now that Celexa does cause withdrawal symptoms.

But, as I noted, a WIDE array of drugs, not just anti-depressants, can cause physicial and/or psychological withdrawal symptoms if they are stopped cold turkey.

Celexa is but a single anti-depressant in a class (with about 5 to 7 subclasses) that includes about 30 to 50 drugs, some commonly prescribed, some which are rarely prescribed.

But, tell me this...

Are you absolutely certain that the woman's mood swings were caused by withdrawal from Celexa?

Are you sure she wasn't just upset about having to crap in the woods like a bear and drink instant coffee and go a couple days without a shower?

That is, quite frankly, enough to get my mood swinging when I go camping.



Anyway, there is one CRITICAL thing that must be mentioned when talking about anti-depressants, or any other drug for that matter.

NO SINGLE DRUG WORKS FOR EVERYONE.

Differences in body chemistry and other factors can make the drug that works well with one person absolutely worthless (or in some cases, such as penicillin, dangerous) for the next person.

That's why I'm continuing to harp on this, folks.

You cannot look at one drug, or a class of drugs, and immediately that that it, or they, cause this punch list of problems for everyone who takes it.

That's simply incorrect.

Do anti-depressants have side effects?

Yes, in some people, without a doubt.

Are there withdrawal side effects?

Yes, in some people, without a doubt.

Do some people take these drugs with absolutely no reported side effects or withdrawal effects?

Yes, without a doubt. Hell, I'm living proof of that.

Do the side effects or withdrawal side effects vary from person to person, from mild to severe, depending on the individual and the drug that that person is taking? Yes, without a doubt.

Is any of this any different from any other drug, or class of drugs?

The answer to that question is a big, unqualified, NO.

 

[Jamie Young]

Boy am I in trouble now

Are you a physician?

No, but I play one on TV.


I know of 2 people that were on Welbutrin. One of them stopped taking the drug and after 3 weeks had an unexplained back spasm. A few weeks later.. severe knee spasm. Went back to the Doctor and found out "your not suppose to just stop taking anti-depressants." If you stop taking anti-depressants abruptly and not take them for awhile... according to what I have red "The medication does not work anymore." You can't just stop and start whenever you want. You can't just pop a happy pill and get happy.

Another person I know that was on Welbutrin also went for 2 months of an abnormally high number of vivid nightmares. Worse than the kind you get when you eat a box of pizza before going to bed. And yes it was after he stopped taking it.

I did a search 3 years ago on the web about side effects of Welbutrin were minimal. But it was the worst drug to come off of.

Most of My friends are on very low doses of Zoloft now. I haven't heard anything bad about that drug other than it "doesn't do anything."

Prozac- I know of one Suicide but I can't claim it had anthing to do with the drug. Just someone that didn't take it consistantly.

My personal experience with this stuff is why I was concerned about Anti-Depressants in My circle of friends. None of the "guys" I know had any other psychological problems other than depression. None of them were Bi-polar or anthing.

Like I said..... this is the complete opposite of what you telling me.