An admission and a suggestion

[crimsondave]

This is a great site full of good information. I learned a great many things from this forum over the few months I've been here, and I've been around firearms my whole life. Heck, I was reloading before I could drive.

But I think we could make this whole site better by trying to put aside our bias when it comes to our personal experiences. I am at least as guilty of bias as anyone. I decided to post this in this forum because my worst vendetta has been against Glock. If you seen any of my posts in Glock threads, you know I can't stand them. My experience with the 21's reliability (apparently due to my shooting style) was bad. However, when I find myself in a discussion with 100 people and I'm the only person who thinks that Glocks are unreliable, it is illogical for me to determine that all Glocks are garbage. Would it not be more likely that most people do not have the same shooting style as myself, so they don't have issues? Glocks are obvioulsy very reliable guns or they would not be flying of the shelves and carried by law enforcement around the world.

Now when you see a discussion about another unnamed make that half the people who have them say they are great and the other half have thrown them in the dumpster, you can logically determine that buying one of those is a roll of the dice.

I got on this because I've seen on all the different boards here people attack certain brands that they do not like for one reason or another. I certainly want to hear about any problems people have had with brand a or b, but lets not get into trashing out entire brands without basis.

Of course, the internet is the internet. I take everything I read on it with a grain of salt. BUT, there is tons of great info exchanged here if you can find it. Sorry about the sermon, but it needed saying.

 

[greyson97]

glock, H&K, Sig, Beretta, Taurus, Hi-Point, Springfield, S&W

Ford, Chevy, Honda, Toyota, KIA, BMW, Porsche

Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft

it really doesnt matter what the topic is, there will always be arguments, fanboyism, selectivism, etc

its human nature

its also human nature to argue

and a lot of people are stupid.

but, there are some very intelligent individuals on this board, and its always good to take each post with a grain of salt, and learn who to listen to and who to ignore.

and to drive the point home, Beretta > All

 

[QBall45]

I'll stand up along side of you.

I'm also guilty of being biased. Please forgive me. I shall try to contain myself in the future.


Side note: up till last weekend I had not shot a Glock. I just know I did not like how they felt in my hands. After having the chance to shoot one this past weekend I've come to a conclusion on the glock. I think they shoot fine & posses adequate accuracy. But, I will not buy one. I feel for me the grip angle is wrong & I don't care for the "feel" of the trigger on my finger. though others may have other thoughts on these guns.


This is an admission of guilt and my humble opinion.

 

[Cremon]

I never come accross as biased unless someone disagrees with me

 

[michael t]

Ok fine with me as soon as those GLOCK owners kneel and swear that the 1911 is King and 45acp rules :

Just kidding well sort of

 

[TRguy]

I'm biased as the next guy, cause HK hates me and thinks I suck.

 

[ScottRiqui]

I think there's something in human nature that no matter how small of a group we're in, we'll always try to subdivide ourselves even further.

If you go to a general motorcycle forum, it's "Cruisers versus sportbikes". If you go to a cruiser-specific forum, it's "Harley-Davidson versus the imports". On a Harley-Davidson board, it's "Sportster owners versus Big Twin owners", or "air-cooled versus water-cooled". I've even seen Sportster owners engage in verbal fisticuffs over which is better, the 883 or the 1200. It never ends, and it's the same in just about any community.

 

[gwnorth]

We are all inherently biased. We can't help but be unless you are somehow someone who has actually owned and shot every single example of every single make and model of gun ever and currently produced, under every possible situation and condition. Bias is unavoidable, and nothing to apologize for or about.

Now, recognizing that one has an inherent bias about everything in this world, it is then a separate matter whether you allow that bias to close your mind to any and all alternative world views, or accept that your own experience is not the limit of everyone else's experience.

Bias need not lead to prejudice, but it so often does. Maybe that's what wisdom is all about? Realizing your own life experience has an inherent bias, so you must actively work to keep an open mind?

Oh, that and it is the internet, so inherently 99% FUD and 1% real, useful information (and that is my wholly unbiased view).

 

[greyson97]

its one thing for "i bought <example gun> glock, shot it, didnt like it, in fact, downright hated it."

and "my dad says he doesnt like <example gun> glocks so therefore i dont like glocks. and no, my dad never shot a glock in his entire life. hates plastic guns"

I cant stand the second group

 

[Skans]

But I think we could make this whole site better by trying to put aside our bias when it comes to our personal experiences.

I guess I hold the oposite view. I believe that people can and should vent about guns that they have had personal experience with, good or bad. I'm not interested in someone's opinion of a gun that they never owned, held or fired. I've reported my bad experience with a particular firearm in other threads. My report is completely based on my experience. I think this is fair, and I'd think/hope others would find that information useful.

Relying on reports made by professional writers for gun magazines, or any of the NRA publications is sort of useless, IMHO. When was the last time that one of these writers "torture tested" a gun they were reviewing and said: "boy this gun's a real piece of garbage because...."?

I value the negative personal experiences people report about particular guns here. It's information that you won't get anywhere else.

 

[m.p.driver]

A friend stated 8 years ago that Glocks were garbage and would never hold up.More plastic in them than a barbie doll,and they had no style or appeal.The last gun show he went through it twice trying to find a model 20 to go with his 21.He sold his Kimber ultra carry and has since switched to a 30.

 

[crimsondave]

You misinterpret what I mean. I agree with you totally. I'm talking about putting aside any bias we develope due to personal experience. Example would be poster Bob saying "I had an Auto 5 that hung up all the time. No way I'd ever buy an A-bolt, cause Browning sucks."

I did say...

I certainly want to hear about any problems people have had with brand a or b, but lets not get into trashing out entire brands without basis.

 

[45Gunner]

Hmmm. Crimson Dave says Glock 21's suck. Mine has never failed to fire. Hmmm. Some people trash other brands of guns. My guess is those that do most of the trashing have never owned the particular brand they are against but have read or heard 4rd or 5th hand horror stories. Hmmm, wanna bet most stuff that goes wrong with a gun is operator/owner error? Hmmmm, some people are stupid? See previous statement/question.

I agree to the point that if someone has a problem with a gun or a great experience, I want to know about it. I, too, have garnished a wealth of knowledge from a few people on this Forum. I agree that we, as responsible gun owners, should not trash an entire brand because of a bad experience with a particular gun. I also think that personal attacks on someone for expressing an opinion is not fair marksmanship. It is OK to disagree but leave the personal attack out of it.

Way to go Crimson Dave...you have stepped up to the plate and I will follow your lead around the bases. Thank you, sir.

 

[Skans]

I agree that we, as responsible gun owners, should not trash an entire brand because of a bad experience with a particular gun. I also think that personal attacks on someone for expressing an opinion is not fair marksmanship. It is OK to disagree but leave the personal attack out of it.

I agree with both of these comments. Y'all get no argument from me there.

 

[dwhite]

Personally, I don't give a flying rats a$$ what people think of what I have. They're certainly entitled to their opinions, I just don't pay them any mind.

My car, house, guns, wife; screw what anyone else thinks.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[The Tourist]

Yikes, if you've ever thought I'm bad now, wait until April of 2010.

I will officially be 60 years of age. No more self-censoring, no more disclaimers or polite nonsense like "YMMV."

In that many decades I've seen a lot of idiots self-destruct. And if you're an idiot, the world needs to know.

 

[varoadking]

I'm biased as the next guy, cause HK hates me and thinks I suck.

I have a hunch that they may not be alone...

 

[TRguy]

I have a hunch that they may not be alone...

Ha, no worries roadking, they hate you too ...... They are non-discriminatory that way. I think it is in their corporate training program, I'm not sure.

 

[HisSoldier]

I emailed a guy last night about a comparison between gun A and gun B (Same gun, different makers) and while I was trying to be unbiased talking about the various pluses and minuses he got so enraged that I suggested that based on manufacturing methods gun A was only slightly less well made than gun B that he started using profanity, and said gun B was 100 times better, that gun A is (swearword) and that I must get rid of my gun A.

The funny thing was that I own both and like them both. One is made with MIM small parts and the later one uses cast.

I came away from the experience feeling like I had wasted time communicating with a child. I came to the conclusion that some people are unable to confer with respect for the feelings and opinions of others unless they agree with their own. It was an epiphany for me.

 

[41mag10mm]

I came away from the experience feeling like I had wasted time communicating with a child. I came to the conclusion that some people are unable to confer with respect for the feelings and opinions of others unless they agree with their own. It was an epiphany for me.

"Reason is the first victim of strong emotion" Originator un-remembered.

For some queer reason some people get very upset when you don't offer support for decisions they've made. Its as if you're insulting thier decision making capacity. In some cases that may 100% true.