Ammo Question about old Stevens 12 gauge side-by-side

[bladesmith 1]

You're fright, and those gauges that go in the muzzle also work IF the gun has what are considered proper diameter bores. The newer guns are often back bored or someone could have done quite a bit of honing and increased the bore diameter. Then those gauges don't work because the choke is the difference between the muzzle and the bore. A friend just bought a used Charles Daley O/U and was told it had IC and Mod. I checked it for him - Mod and Full.

 

[FITASC]

With a 50-70 year old gun it may be near the end of it's expected life depending on how much it has been used, abused....or neglected

Fixed it.

 

[44 AMP]

The 10 or so Damascus guns I own haven't noticed if I shoot BP or nitro in them. Been doing it for around 15 years and 95% of the time with nitro.

Congratulations, you haven't had a problem...YET...
You may never have a problem, I hope you don't.

Or you might have a barrel let go the very next time you pull the trigger. there's no way to know, and that's the problem.

"True" Damascus barrels used 6 or 8 straps, wound around a mandrel and hammer welded into a barrel. Twist (or Stub Twist) barrels were made the same way, but used only 2 or 4 straps.

Damascus barrels were made during the early part of the smokeless era, for a couple reasons, first, was that they had been, and still were in demand by the comsumers, Damascus barrels were seen as a sign of high quality, and kept that reputation for some time, despite the superiority of "fluid steel" or "Nickel Steel" barrels. Over time, that changed, Damascus production ended (in the US at least) leaving the modern solid barrel the dominant type.

Second reason, was simply that even after smokeless "took over", a lot of people still used black powder reloading their shells. Over time, the "bulk" smokeless powders (such as DuPont's PB) replaced black, and then eventually more modern smokeless became the standard.

My Grandfather had a "stub twist" Ithace he was very fond of. Soo was one of his neighbors, who badgered him for about a decade before Grandpa gave in and sold him the gun. The gun my Grandfather replaced that gun with is the one I currently have, which he bought new in 1909. It has "fluid steel" barrels.

His old stub twist gun gave good service for several more decades, then 8 inches of the left barrel unraveled in the 1940s. Might have been smokeless ammo, we don't know, and of course no way to know, now.

Point here is that Damascus barrel guns are a potential problem, there's no way to tell if there is rust or bad welds in the voids produced by the hammer welding method that weakens them, until the barrel lets go. IF it does.

In some ways its like the "low number Springfields" that "shouldn't be shot" today. People have been and probably still are shooting some of them with no problems. Others have had catastrophic failures.

Since it is possible (but not a given) people advise not to shoot them at all.

 

[NoSecondBest]

Take the forearm off the gun and there should be a few places on the receiver with numbers/markings. There probably is on the forearm metal also. You can track down the manufacture date and model with those numbers if you go to Shotgunworld.com and use their database and/or ask for help there. I did that with one of my guns, the .410 that I had.

 

[musicmatty]

Thanks everyone for your feedback I greatly appreciate it! My nephew just uses the shotgun for target shooting and some sporting clays in the yard with target loads.

Thanks again everyone, Merry Christmas and happy new year!

 

[Mike Irwin]

Looks like my Stevens 311.

Only mine is in 20 gauge.

Mine dates to sometime in the mid 1950s to early 1960s. I only shoot lead shot target loads in it because I only use it for trap, skeet, and wobble.

 

[Hawg]

No need to take the forearm off. If it was made after 1949 it will have a date code located on the bottom of the frame between the trigger guard and hinge pin. It will consist of one or two numbers and a letter in an oval. The letter is the date code. A=1949, B=1950, C=1951, etc. All the way up to 1970. The circled letters on the water table are meaningless.

 

[Pahoo]

My old friend !!!!

There are no removable chokes.

I too feel that it is a 311 as I grew up with one. If memory serves me correct, The chokes are Modified of the right and full, on the left. You can use the old dime trick or take it to a smith and he has a quick-check gauge. Once he verifies the full, the other will be the Modified. There is a lot more information on the metal that you have not noted. I like what I'm seeing as it reminds my of my old friend. Show us a picture of the receiver sides. Suggest you do not dry-fire it. I gave my nephew my old 311, twelve and later bought a 311, 20GA. Like the old Timex commercials; These can take a licking and keep on ticking. ......

Good luck and;
Be Safe !!!

 

[Ricklin]

Two of em

Stevens made a lot of Dept store guns too. My 12 Ga. is a JC Higgins, and the 20 is a Revelation brand, sold by the old Western Auto hardware chain.

The 12 is from the 50's and the 20 1970's

The 12 has 26" barrels choked IC and Mod.

The 20 is a 30" mod and full.

My understanding is most are set up that way, the looser choke on the left and forward trigger.

Nothing weird about the ones I have.

 

[Virginian]

The pressures of shotgun shells have not changed since the 30s or earlier. Only thing I would not advise is hyper velocity steel. Something about the vibration; I have seen a couple of doubles with separated barrels.
The forward trigger usually fires the right barrel.

 

[Pahoo]

Could be

Western Auto hardware chain.

If that be the case, then these can be crossed referenced as to who made it and model number. These are called "Store-Brands" in the Blue-Book or I'm sure the internet can also help. However, you need to provide more information.

Be Safe !!!

 

[FITASC]

My understanding is most are set up that way, the looser choke on the left and forward trigger.

The looser choke is typically the right barrel (which is the forward trigger) not the left. With a single non-selective trigger first pull fires the right barrel and then the left with more open choke first followed by a the tighter one.

 

[Ricklin]

Thanks

Thanks, pesky dyslexia gets me every now and again.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"The pressures of shotgun shells have not changed since the 30s or earlier."

No, but the types and hardness of steels used in the barrels have changed.

Older shotguns should NOT be shot with steel shot. Steel shot columns don't compress the way lead shot columns do, even with buffering material added.

The end result can be a bulged barrel, especially at the choke, or even scoured barrels.

I've seen two nice older shotguns damaged by use of steel shot.

 

[Mike Irwin]

And speaking of shotshell pressures... here's a good article on the subject.

https://www.shotgunlife.com/shotguns/tom-roster/important-information-about-shotshell-pressures.html

 

[Virginian]

With modern shotshells and wads, barrel scouring would be of very scant concern to me with any non toxic shot, but I would not shoot steel or other hard non toxic shot without having steel safe choke tubes added first. Yes you can have the chokes opened up and try it, but if you're wrong you've wrecked a good gun.

 

[Mike Irwin]

It apparently becomes a problem if the barrel lead is tight and abrupt. The inability of the shot column to reposition quickly enough as it goes through the lead can result in the shot tearing through the wad, no matter how modern it is.

 

[bladesmith 1]

Mod is about the tightest choke you'd want when shooting steel shot. Steel shot loads are in a protective wad so the shot isn't rubbing against the barrel. It's the fact that steel doesn't compress like lead does, so that's the reason for nothing tighter than Mod choke.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"Steel shot loads are in a protective wad"

Which isn't impervious to being ripped to absolute shreds as I noted in my previous post. I've seen the effects of of steel shot on both barrels and the protective wad when the wad is no longer... protective.

 

[FITASC]

Mod is about the tightest choke you'd want when shooting steel shot. Steel shot loads are in a protective wad so the shot isn't rubbing against the barrel. It's the fact that steel doesn't compress like lead does, so that's the reason for nothing tighter than Mod choke.

Pretty much EVERY load of shot sits in a wad (some a little over the top) to help protect it from deformation. The problem with steel is that it does NOT deform upon ignition and too tight of a choke can lead to a bulge, or worse, a ruptured barrel.