Ammo gone because of Fed...Sierra speaks.

[Beentown71]

Here is a well thought out explanation from the VP of Sales at Sierra. I still think the .gov effect on ammo availability is there just not as conspiratorial as it has been portrayed.

Blurb:

I know the rumors about huge government agency purchases along with the shortages makes some people draw conclusions that simply are not the case. Being in sales, I can tell you that a government agency requesting a bid for 2 billion rounds of ammo is a FAR cry from a government agency BUYING 2 billion rounds of ammo. The shooting industry is a fairly close industry and we all know each other pretty well and word gets around quickly. I personally do not know of a single company who has been awarded this bid, let alone one that is working on it. The shooting industry would know it pretty quick. Many companies sell to government agencies and have for many, many years. These small segments of business are not causing the shortages in any way, I promise you that.

Full story below and well worth the read.

http://sierrabullets.wordpress.com/2013/05/23/is-the-government-buying-all-the-sierra-bullets-so-that-there-are-none-left-for-customers/

 

[Evan Thomas]

The linked article is well worth reading: it's an informed debunking of this conspiracy theory from someone in the industry.

I still think the .gov effect on ammo availability is there just not as conspiratorial as it has been portrayed.

Can you provide any factual evidence for this belief? If not, it's not worth discussing.

 

[Beentown71]

Well yes. The government uses ammo, right? So it would have an effect on supply, right? I just don't believe the conspiratorial route it always seems to go. Is that an issue or should I add some links of drivel we have seen for so long?

 

[Evan Thomas]

We all know that the government buys and uses ammunition; but the government's use of ammo would have to have gone up for it to have an effect on the supply in the civilian market. As Mr. Reams points out, and he's in a position to know, there's no evidence that it has.

If you don't believe the conspiracy theories, then how do you think "the .gov effect on ammo availability is there..."?

 

[Beentown71]

Come on Vanya...are you just wanting to argue? I don't.

The US Government has a major part/role in ammo supply/demand. No way around it. I did not say in any form that it is more than normal. If you want to continue to read more into it then by all means...

If you wanna lock it...by all means. Just thought it was a good article to share with our fellow shooters. Especially the common sense approach that fellow shooters work at these facilities and would be screaming to confirm the conspiracies as they effect them also. Which hasn't been the case.

Good day...

 

[Evan Thomas]

Beentown, if I misunderstood what you were saying, I apologize -- no wish to argue, only to clarify; and it's a very good article.

 

[edfrompa]

I started this link last week and they deleted it. Hope it stays up for awhile. But they will probably lock it.
one point one billion rounds of ammo and you tell me it has no effect on supply and demand??????? And the consumers are purchasing all the ammo?? Major box stores like Cabala's, Walmart, Pro Bass etc. do not have any quantity of ammo. When is last time you bought a brick of 22lr ammo??? Who purchased it all???? No it is not a conspiracy. The government cannot stop you from buying guns. But they sure can make it very difficult to shoot them.

 

[ammo.crafter]

where's all the ammo gone?

Edfrompa is spot on.

 

[southjk]

edfrompa, did you even read the linked article?

 

[southjk]

When is last time you bought a brick of 22lr ammo??? Who purchased it all???? No it is not a conspiracy. The government cannot stop you from buying guns. But they sure can make it very difficult to shoot them.

And this is complete and utter BS. I've bought a few thousand rounds of 22lr since the first of the year. I've also bought about 1500 rounds of 9mm. The ammo is out there it is just getting bought as fast as it gets put on the shelf.

You may not have noticed but there are literally thousands and thousands of new gun owners out there in the past few years. What do you think they want to do with those new guns? Right, shoot them. And for that they need ammo. Add that to the stockpilers and you have a shortage.

 

[Beentown71]

I started this link last week and they deleted it. Hope it stays up for awhile. But they will probably lock it.
one point one billion rounds of ammo and you tell me it has no effect on supply and demand??????? And the consumers are purchasing all the ammo?? Major box stores like Cabala's, Walmart, Pro Bass etc. do not have any quantity of ammo. When is last time you bought a brick of 22lr ammo??? Who purchased it all???? No it is not a conspiracy. The government cannot stop you from buying guns. But they sure can make it very difficult to shoot them.

The guys lining up outside of Cabelas and Walmart every morning are who is buying it. I wish I had the link but the .gov has purchased less ammo so far in 2013 than it did 2012 in the same time period.

I have purchased bricks of 22 every time I have went to Cabelas. But I get there early and I make the effort.

All of 07 through 2010 we only had few months with NICS checks over 1 million. December of 2012 we had 2.8 million NICS checks. More guns = more ammo.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

There's no ammo shortage. Just go to gunbroker. Tons of it there. If you don't mind paying $100/1000 primers, for example.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"I started this link last week and they deleted it."

It was deleted last week because it was NOTHING more than the same old tired howler monkey conspiracy theories.

You had NOTHING to back up your claims other than the same tortured illogical screed that numerous others have posted before you.

Government agencies letting a fixed price IDIQ capped contract for the purchase of UP TO a TOTAL of 1+ billion rounds of ammunition over a FIVE YEAR span is NOT proof that the government is buying up all of the ammo on the market today.

For those who don't understand what a "fixed price IDIQ capped contract for the purchase of UP TO a TOTAL of 1+ billion rounds" means, it's simple...

The government submits a Request for Proposal to ammo manufacturers asking them to submit pricing bids that, if accepted, will allow the government to lock in the price of ammunition over the life of the contract.

It does NOT say "We WILL buy 1+ billion rounds of ammo every month for five years!"

It does NOT say "We WILL buy 1+ billion rounds of ammo OVER those five years."

It DOES say "This contract gives us the ability to buy UP TO a total of (number stated in the contract) rounds of ammunition over the life of this contract for the unit price stated."

Normally there is a minimum amount that will be purchased. It could be as few as 100,000 rounds over those five years.

The National Shooting Sports Foundation says that American manufacturers load up to 12 BILLION rounds of ammunition EVERY YEAR. http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2012/federalammunitionregulation2012.aspx

Additionally, BILLIONS more rounds are imported from overseas every years.

Over the five-year span of this contract, American manufacturers will load upwards 60 BILLION rounds of ammunition.

Does anyone truly think that the Federal government is buying 12 to 20 BILLION rounds of ammo a year?

Anyone who has gone to a gunshow recently and watched the amount of ammo that's gone out the door knows what an utter crock of crap these claims are.

I've said it many times before, I'll say it again right now.

Some people are so damned paranoid about "THE GUBMINT!" that they simply don't feel secure if they don't have some huge, overarching conspiracy theory upon which to hang their paranoia.

This is simply the latest one in a LONG line of them.

 

[Buzzcook]

From my personal experience the shortage is due to individuals hoarding or buying to resell.

I reload and till recently the ammo shortage hasn't been a big deal for me. Then I bought a gun chambered in .38 special, a round I haven't used in many years.
In looking for ammo I found the same story, "we get ammo delivered on day X and by the afternoon it's all gone".
I finally found ammo at Cabelas and it was like a feeding frenzy.

There probably was a government caused shortage when the wars first ramped up in 2002-2003. I doubt that ammo makers are still playing catch up after ten years.

 

[lcpiper]

Yea, there was an ammo shortage in the early war years;

120mm HE
60mm Rockets
30mm M789 High Explosive Dual Purpose (HEDP)
and M799 High Explosive Incendiary (HEI)
25mm HEIT
105mm HE
227mm M85 and M77 DPICM submunitions
AGM 114 Hellfire Missiles

For most of the first couple of years the fighting was almost all Appaches, M1s, Bradleys, Arty and MLRS, and Airforce CAS from A-10s and such.

I think after we started getting short on these we actually started working into our stockpiles of .50Cal, 7.62mm, and 5.56 Ball. I am being a little facetious here but really, we don't run around playing little soldier boy with small arms all day. We like to play with bigger toys when we can.

 

[Closing The Gap]

When is last time you bought a brick of 22lr ammo???

2 weeks ago my wife and I bought 4 Winchester 555rd pack for $23.17 each(we shoot a LOT of .22) as well as a box of federal champion 9mm each. We made several grumpy guys unhappy, but as the clerk informed us "those guys line up every night we have a truck with ammo". Last night they had 325rd packs of federal auto match for $14 and change. We didnt buy it but could have...

My suggestion is to befriend the sporting goods guys at your local walmart and find out when you can thwart the resellers. Or get the Walmart app and keep checking the availablity of whatever ammo you need. Eventually you'll see the pattern develop. I'll give you a hint they get trucks 3 days a week, typically one day has ammo. Depending on the store manager it either goes out as soon as its checked in that evening or it goes out at 7am the next day.

Maybe we should all petition Walmart to enact a 1 box per customer policy in order to make it not worthwhile for those guys to stay in business. The ammo is out there. You just have to be smarter than the avg bear to find it.

Furthermore Bass pro, Cabelas and walmart managers confirm that theyve sold more ammo this year than any previous year. Its no conspiracy its called new guns, new shooters need ammo too.

 

[deepcreek]

Here in Denver co, we have people who have been waiting for stores to open running in and buying their "limit" lines of them ever morning. I have talked to store owners and employees they say it is like that every shipment they get in never makes the shelves.

I always have an open ear for behind the scenes government stories but from what I see it is consumers. I just don't see a conspiracy here.

Things are getting better I am seeing cases of 223 ammo for sale in stacks next to racks of ARs. i am also seeing handgun ammo on shelves. People are running out of money and the industry is just cranking along like normal except people are over ordering like the frenzy will never end.

 

[edfrompa]

I must be living in a different country than most of you. I am from Pa. And I was in Fla. this past winter. I did not see one box, not one of any 22 ammo, long short or long rifle. In Pa, the same thing. I shop at Walmart, Cabela's, Pro Bass, Dunhams, Gander Mtn. and some local gunshops. They have nothing. Last week Dunhams had five fifty round boxes of 22shorts. Flve bucks a box of fifty!!!
Look on youtube, Michael Savage, he had one of the ammo manufactures on the air. If you find it, listen to it. This was about three weeks ago. Very interesting. When some of you say the stores were loaded with ammo?? I must be shopping at the wrong stores. In fact the one Walmart I go to no longer has a storage for pistol ammo. They put knives and binoculars in their place. Rifle ammo except for 223 they have plenty of, plus certain shotgun sizes. It reminds me of the story of Noah's Ark, some believed most did not. Read the rest of the story.

 

[lcpiper]

I love the government conspiracy theory stuff because after having worked so long for and around the government I have come to realize that if you peel back the layers of these stories you are far more likely to find simple human failings coupled with grossly over-sized bureaucracy as the cause, than the dark shadowy motives of evil men.

 

[edfrompa]

Yes I did read the article. I do not believe everything I read or hear.