always amazed at the stupidity.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It's very easy : "my house, my rules".

No, we are talking about businesses open to the public. Businesses are highly regulated. You cannot do everything you want in such a business.

Thus, the debate, once again - - is whether the competing rights and societal interests trump you ability to run your business as you want.

It's very easy.

 

[rickyrick]

You must determine on your own if those signs carry any legal weight.
(Some do-some don't)

Then decide what you're gonna do.

The ball is then in the gun owner's court.

Persuading the store management to take down the sign may not be a fruitful endeavor

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Absent such a sign, lawyers will try to claim that the mall (or whatever) allowed guns/gun wielders on the property, and therefore, either encouraged or contributed to the violence, and therefore are responsible, and therefore, must PAY.

And juries have a strong tendency to look at any business as having "deep pockets", sadly no matter what the actual facts are, juries often look only at who they believe can pay.

If a shooting occurs with the sign in place, a lawyer will likely argue the sign was meaningless, since there was nobody at the door checking to make sure the sign wasn't being disobeyed. And the "deep pockets" statement will again come into play as the lawyer wins his case in today's litigious America, even if the shooter is a hero and the victim a career criminal.

 

[vito]

Aside from the issues of individual rights versus property rights, there is also the question of why someone would post a no guns sign. Surely they realize that criminals will ignore such a sign. My guess is that many store owners are like one of my daughters. She prefers for me not to carry when I visit her home. She believes that the likelihood of their being a break-in or other criminal act committed against her or her family at her home is virtually non-existent. The reality that no one is totally immune from criminal violence does not seem to get through to her. So she sees no legitimate need for anyone to be armed in her home, and does worry about the small but undeniably real possibility of an accidental or negligent discharge (which of course she fears would harm or kill one of her children). She considers me a highly responsible person but still feels that my carrying a firearm into her home puts her and her children at higher risk than is offset by any possible benefit to me being armed and able to protect her. My guess is that many store owners feel exactly the same way. It is then my choice, when I see a store so posted, to decide if I want to shop there.

 

[Tin Foil]

@SaxonPig,

Most of the time its because of insurance reasons as well as they are running scared of civil suit.
Check this one out, a local indoor range that just open will not allow you to bring in your own practice ammo because of the fear some will try to sneak in reloads.
They said their insurance company wanted to much in premiums to cover that.

Sometimes we in the gun community are own worst enemies. But if you miss that sign don't panic and if they make you and ask you to leave just leave. And if you ever had to use it in a no gun sign area a good lawyer could make a case on account you never saw it.

Just make sure you never get caught on school property, county/State/Federal property or you will go to jail. And you'll lose your gun rights.

 

[Magnum Wheel Man]

county/State/Federal property or you will go to jail. And you'll lose your gun rights.

the local county court house & the local post office, neither have signs posted ( I've actually looked ) I would think it would be pretty hard to prosecute if someone forgot, if there were no signs posted ???

 

[Tin Foil]

I hear ya. I'm always on the look out for a lawyer who has a office over a liquor store. (that means they are hungry)
I remember once down in San Antone years ago I had to go into the Federal court house to check on general mail delivery, good God Almighty. I thought I was being vented for top secret clearance.

 

[vito]

Some states, like Illinois, being caught in a posted location (assuming the posted sign meets the state requirements and that it is prominently displayed as required) is the same as being caught in a legislatively prohibited place, such as a school. You would face prosecution and likely lose your concealed carry license.

As far as gun owners sometimes being our own worst enemy, the pistol club that I belong to initially was going to prohibit concealed carry by its members when IL finally legalized concealed carry. Fortunately wiser heads prevailed, arguing that those of us in the gun club, NRA members all, who argue with the anti's about responsible gun ownership, would look sadly hypocritical if we refused to honor legal concealed carry. So now we can carry at the indoor ranges, but must keep our loaded and concealed firearm concealed at all times. If you want to shoot your carry gun, you need to have it unloaded and cased before you enter the club. Luckily the local press never got wind of the proposed ban on concealed carry by our governing board.

 

[Tin Foil]

@Vito,

Good point. Check this out, the range I use will not allow you to enter the range area with your gun holstered. They claim it's an OSHA regulation. And I remember the first time I went there the owner was very adamant about it.
He even ask more than once if my gun was holstered. Now that he knows me he's more relaxed. The Feds got everyone running scared out here. Help along the way I'm sure by the anti-gunners.

 

[manta49]

Most places you will be asked to leave. The mall around here is no firearms but there is no signs at the doors or at least the doors I go into so I carry regardless. I'd rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6. The only places I don't carry is where state and federal law forbid me to its that simple. Other than that no one knows I have it on me.

I am sure you like people to abide by your wishes when they are on your property. But you feel it's OK for you to ignore other people's wishes when you are on their property.

 

[rickyrick]

I got hammered for CCWing at a range...

I thought it was silly, but I complied after that

 

[Buzzard Bait]

just walk away

I think its convenient if they don't like your gun why would you want to do business with them. That sign makes it easy to see they are the kind of people you don't want to business with I mean if the gun can't go in neither can the billfold it's easy to go some place else that doesn't have the sign and wants your business
bb

 

[Sharkbite]

Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member

Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,007
Quote:
county/State/Federal property or you will go to jail. And you'll lose your gun rights.
the local county court house & the local post office, neither have signs posted ( I've actually looked ) I would think it would be pretty hard to prosecute if someone forgot, if there were no signs posted ???

Somewhere the Post office has a sign saying "no weapons allowed". That's a Federal thing. Mine has it posted on the main bulletin board, not on the door. Thats Uncle Sams property and no guns allowed.

 

[WyMark]

Here in Wyoming signs carry the weight of law, and ignoring a "no guns allowed" or similar sign is legally the same as being asked by the property owner to leave and refusing to do so. You have already committed criminal trespass, and the local Sheriff who issued your carry permit will likely view your actions in a highly negative light.

There are no words I can muster to describe my feelings about those who use terms like "sheep" to describe people who choose not to be armed, and "sheep dog" to describe themselves, that won't get me banned. Please look in a mirror and shout every derogatory term you can think of related to sub average intelligence at the person you see there.

 

[Sharkbite]

There are no words I can muster to describe my feelings about those who use terms like "sheep" to describe people who choose not to be armed, and "sheep dog" to describe themselves, that won't get me banned. Please look in a mirror and shout every derogatory term you can think of related to sub average intelligence at the person you see there.

This is in reference to LtCol Dave Grossman's written work describing the different psychologies at work in the human animal. He is one of the leading experts on the act of interpersonal violence and its effect on the mental health of people involved

There is no derogatory intent in the description. Read the work and educate yourself before you jump to conclusions about the intelligence of those that apply the term

He has been a speaker at numerous prestigious teaching venues (naval academy, West Point) various Special warfare units, Law Enforcement training seminars and is WELL respected in the community.

 

[Evan Thomas]

Closed: reductio ad sheepsurdum.