Alternative AR 15 chamberings

ripnbst

New member
The .300BLK doesn't do as much as I want but seems to have higher muzzle energy at close range. It would be cool if I were going the NFA route, but I'm neither old enough nor looking to spend that much money yet. I might see an 8 or 10 inch suppressed AR in .300BLK appearing in my future though :)

Actually because the .300BLK shoots heavier bullets than 5.56 the energy on target at range surpasses that of the 5.56 at a certain distance though I can't recall it off the top of my head.

EDIT: Watch this vid for good .300BLK info.
http://youtu.be/tgKjbySsAik
 
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tgreening

New member
I'm highly interested in this round since it seems to fit right in with my intended usage, but cost / availability seems to be a major issue. Reloading spent 5.56 brass is an option, but to be able to do it in any kind of quantity (without making it a full time job) would take a fairly serious investment in reloading equipment.

It seems to be what I want, but I'm just not sure it's practical and/or cost effective.
 

leadcounsel

Moderator
.308 is .50-75 cents per round for average stuff.

5.56 is about .30 cents per round.

Both are currently easy to get and are proven effective for self defense, varminting, hunting, etc.

6.8 is about $1.25 per round or more and rare.

For every thousand rounds of 6.8 you buy, you're spending around $500-$1000 more for ammo... or basically a new rifle.

Every time you pull the trigger with the 6.8, consider it like 4 times you could have with the 5.56... or twice with the .308. That's a lot of lost shooting.

So.... it's actually cheaper to get a 5.56 rifle and a .308 rifle and ammo for each. Then you have two vastly different chamberings rather than two that are marginally different; and you have two rifles.

Oh, I will add that there's a company out there that makes uppers for the 7.62x25mm pistol or 45 acp or 10mm, etc. http://bazookabrothers.com/products2.htm
http://cncgunsparts.com/faq
 
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Mobuck

Moderator
I can't imagine that the 300AAC would be very effective at 700 yards unless you're killing aluminum cans(or maybe have already "killed" some of those and are making the feat up). Shooting a bullet the weight of a light 357 mag with essentially the same amount of powder-even though it's a more efficient shape-does not make for a great long range setup.
The 300AAC has it's niche and it's a narrow one. Mine is destined for use by Grandkids as a very short range deer rifle using a suppressor(if the paperwork ever gets finished) and possibly home defense. I have no expectations of making the round an elephant slayer or long range paper tiger.
 

dean1818

New member
Lead council......

Reloading is the key

I reload 6.8 for near the price you are quoting the 223..... And much better than your price for 308

.15 for bullets
.07 for primers
.06 for 2200 powder
.04 for brass (many people are getting 10-15 reloads)

The 308 is a great round. But much of the AR10s are 10lbs and up

I didnt consider the 6.5, though the balistics are better than the 6.8, at the time it had limited support

I chose the 6.8 because its easier to lug around in the woods than the AR10 styles, and hits MUCH harder than the 223

I hunt texas boar, that are tough animals and can get to 450 lbs plus

For me, for how I use the weapon, the 6.8 was a better choice
 
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dakota.potts

New member
Interesting, where are you paying $.50 for a .308 round? We are paying $1 a round or even more sometimes at our local stores. We buy what they have, which is sometimes something like Accu-tip or soft point hunting rounds, but never seem to find it under $1 each. We've found the CBC 7.62X51, but the Remington doesn't like that. I also find the .308 recoil just a bit much for me. I'm looking for a round that is a middle ground between the two in terms of power, ballistics, etc. It seemed I would be paying roughly the same for a 6.8 as a .308 and I just don't want the larger cartridge.

I wasn't aware 5.56 had come down so much either -- I hadn't looked in a while because we don't own one. Whatever I did I would definitely keep an upper in 5.56 for the reasons you mentioned.

What is the availability of .300BLK? If it only requires a new barrel, that seems like a good first venture for getting into different chamberings for the AR. It would also give me more energy at closer ranges. I'm mostly looking at the other cartridges for terms of their power and ballistics -- I'm told a 6.8 acts like a .308 at 500 yards -- and I'd probably be bench shooting it in slow fire where I would use the 5.56 for different things.
 

Tejicano

New member
TimW77,

Skipping the ad homium, what I said was : "The 6.5 Grendel is a great round but its designed more for accuracy from longer barrels..."

What Bill Alexander said was (08-12-2012) :
“To date Grendel started as a heavy long barrel system for long ranges.” (http://www.65grendel.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3553.html)

What is the real difference in what I stated and what Bill Alexander stated? For those who don’t know, Bill Alexander actually named the 6.5 Grendel.

I will admit that I was not aware that better hi-capacity magazines are now available for the 6.5 Grendel.
 

dean1818

New member
Getting into reloading will give you many more choices and flexibility

Its also fun.



If you are set against reloading, 308 or 223 are decent choices.

You will need to keep your eyes out for online deals and buy bulk

Save your brass and sell it, and your net cost is much less
 

tirod

Moderator
The major difference in power with the 6.8 and 6.5 is when barrels go under 16". The 6.8 was originally designed for a 14.5" NFA barrel, and the case design and powders used tend to add diminishing returns beyond that. The 6.8 is definitely the better round in a 10" PDW, exactly what is being sold to a Middle Eastern government for Royal protection.

It's not that the 6.5 can't be chopped down, but the large ratio case to bullet diameter from the AK has proven out to be a better long distance shooter - using typically slower powders, the 6.5 achieves the same velocity in a 20" inch barrel as the 6.8 does in a 16". What it excels at is having a longer bullet to go with the short fat case, so the aerodynamics for long distance flight are better. The 6.8 compromises that with a longer narrower case which leaves less room for the bullet.

There's the reasons behind why the 6.5 was invented by a long distance shooter, initially tested on long distance range matches, and where it still demonstrates some serious potential. The 6.8 was designed by Special Forces with the Army Marksmanship Unit to beef up power at combat range, out to 300 meters, and it delivers in a light short barrel.

They were never intended to compete for the same job, although a lot of newbs confuse them. It's like the constant arguing about the Sebenza vs SNG, just because something has the same materials and price doesn't mean it does the same job.

What I find funny is the hypersensitivity by some Grendel shooters when any aspersion is made about the 6.5 not being optimal for a short barrel short range gun. It's not the absolute top dog, no, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. You just might be giving away a bit of performance, and frankly, it's something that a good handloader might be able to tweak back.

Some of us 6.8 guys do know what we are talking about. They are both fine calibers, but they were never intended in the beginning to be competitors. Fanboys bring that into the game with they identify caliber to masculinity.

As for ammo, we've heard complaints for years about it being pricey. Guess what? IT'S NOT SURPLUS. You can't get overruns, rejects, and armory sell offs like you can with military calibers. It's all new ammo for the market with no government subsidy. You pay the shelf price like any other. So, if you want to shoot a lot of it, shoot reloads. Reloaded ammo is at least half the price, and a good entry level kit at $200 will pay for itself in a year or two of shooting. Plus, you aren't at the mercy of a restricted system of distribution where just in time logistics attempt to put a few boxes on the shelf every week. You can make that in an hours work reusing those expensive brass cases and simply adding back the consumable parts.

Price 30-06 or .45 surplus lately? Not really available much anymore, tons of it was shot up in the 70's and '80s when governments sold it off changing to new calibers. The same thing will happen with 7.62x39 and .5.56. If you want to shoot something designed for hunting tho, most states require hunting ammo, and that means you are right back to buying commercial hunting ammo off the shelf. Don't deceive yourself about that.
 

leadcounsel

Moderator
I always love how reloaders never factor in the time it takes to reload.

It's like saying I can get across the country for free if I walk. Obviously flying or driving make more economical sense if your goal is to get across the country.
 

Flea21

New member
I always love how reloaders never factor in the time it takes to reload.

It's like saying I can get across the country for free if I walk. Obviously flying or driving make more economical sense if your goal is to get across the country.

The quality of factory ammo will always be inferior to reloaded ammo because you can control every aspect of the round. Furthermore, its a hobby just like shooting is.. Time is relative like cleaning guns after firing takes up time as well!
 

NWCP

New member
The 6.8 SPC II is the only way to go IMHO. I pay a dollar a round (I don't reload) and generally order my ammo online. The 6.8 SPC is accurate and hits harder at a longer range than the 5.56. Buy the upper and the correct magazines and you're good to go.

I use the 5.56 with an EOTech XPS 2.0 holographic sight for personal defense and in 30 seconds or so can convert it into a 20" barreled 6.8 SPC II hunting rifle with a Leupold 3-9x40 Mark AR scope. It could also double duty as a decent self defense weapon as well.

The 6.8 SPC is far easier to find ammo for over the 6.5 Grendel. The recoil is similar to a 5.56. It is definitely a coyote killer and I would consider using it on deer out to 200-250 yards. My gun seems to like Barrett 110 grain BTHP/WC fodder.
 

Justice06RR

New member
I can't imagine that the 300AAC would be very effective at 700 yards unless you're killing aluminum cans(or maybe have already "killed" some of those and are making the feat up). Shooting a bullet the weight of a light 357 mag with essentially the same amount of powder-even though it's a more efficient shape-does not make for a great long range setup.
The 300AAC has it's niche and it's a narrow one. Mine is destined for use by Grandkids as a very short range deer rifle using a suppressor(if the paperwork ever gets finished) and possibly home defense. I have no expectations of making the round an elephant slayer or long range paper tiger.

You may have misunderstood the advantages of the 300BLK cartridge.

No, its not suitable for 700 yards, but so is a 5.56 or 7.62x39.
Effective range for 300BLK is under 300yards, same as x39.

Its effectiveness lies in the short to intermediate distances that most people will ever need for defensive purposes. I don't think I've ever heard or read of any news article that involves a SD scenario shooting past 200 yards.

As far as the merits for 300BLK, there are plenty. The only real downsides is range(distance) and ammo price/availability. 6.8 and 6.5G will have the same ammo availability and price range.
 

Gunplummer

New member
I put together a 6.8 a few years ago and it was a great deer round. Sold it, probably should have kept it. I opened the bolt face somewhat to handle the case head size. Still plenty of steel left. I have heard that the 6.5 Grendal was cracking bolts because of the head diameter being too big. I don't know, just rumors. Anybody heard anything on that? I never looked at a 6.5 cartridge so I don't know. Just idle curiosity.
 

mehavey

New member
I'm a (very) satisfied Grendel owner -- got it from Bill Alexander many, many years ago.

Totally reliable feed/performance with everything I've thrown at it. AND I've found it
also feeds from my other "standard" 5.56 magazines. Bolt lugs are fine -- and like any
AR action will stay that way unless I start shoving a steady diet of over-pressure
loads down its throat.
 
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tahunua001

New member
The quality of factory ammo will always be inferior to reloaded ammo because you can control every aspect of the round. Furthermore, its a hobby just like shooting is.. Time is relative like cleaning guns after firing takes up time as well!
I wouldn't say that, I've shot some reloads that are absolute garbage and there is some very good match grade factory ammo out there.

never deal in absolutes, you'll always be wrong ;)
 

TnTnTn

New member
The 6x45(6mm/223) is a great option to boost the whack factor a bit while using the same brass, bolt, and magazines as the .223. It is a better coyote round and a better deer round than the .223 IMHO although the .223 will do both also.
 

barnbwt

New member
510 Reedwhacker; a 300WSM case cut back to the neck taper, and stuffed with a .510 bullet to fit the OAL of an AR15 magazine.
50%20Thumper.jpg

Obviously the BMG bullet load would need to be single-loaded, but a 475gr slug fits AR mags. Ballistics approach lower-weight 50 Alaskan levels (<500gr @ ~2000fps, IIRC). Definitely one of the more interesting chamberings I've seen.

AR57 in 5.7x28 is the coolest swap-in conversion going, and I've heard very good things about it when coupled with good (i.e. not Korean) magazines.

TCB
 

WV_gunner

New member
If you know what you're doing, reloading is far superior to factory rounds. But if you got some idiot doing it, it can be dangerous. If I could afford to reload I'd do it. I can't even afford Tulammo at the moment.
 
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