AK VS AR
- Thread starter keithdog
- Start date
marine6680
New member
This is for the merits of the AK vs the AR...
Other rifles and other considerations are not the focus.
If you are willing to spend $1500 on an AK, and get a good optic rail and optic to put on it... You can have a very good rifle.
The problem is, is that you have to spend that much to get a proper quality AK that can last and be what an AK can be.
Though the AK guys seemed to like the Gen 2 PSA AK, and a few imports around that price range worked well mechanically, they just had crappy furniture. So replacing it would add to the cost, making them close to $1000 anyway.
A quality AR made to specs and able to last a long time, can be had for $600-800 and you don't need to buy a side rail mount to mount an optic.
If your primary concern is absolute rugged reliability after lots of neglect in the field... An AK fits that. It is heavier and less efficient than an AR though.
As far as neglect goes... Not likely a real concern, even for the prepper crowd. You just are not going to let your rifle sit neglected in water and mud for days and weeks. It's going to slung on your shoulder. A few rags and a quart of motor oil will last a long time in an emergency doomsday situation. It's not hard to wipe down an AR every now and then, it's not like they need to be kept spotless like some like to think.
So, in the end, most people just want a range toy. Either rifle is fine for that. If you have other concerns, then learn the facts about the platforms and make a choice.
Other rifles and other considerations are not the focus.
If you are willing to spend $1500 on an AK, and get a good optic rail and optic to put on it... You can have a very good rifle.
The problem is, is that you have to spend that much to get a proper quality AK that can last and be what an AK can be.
Though the AK guys seemed to like the Gen 2 PSA AK, and a few imports around that price range worked well mechanically, they just had crappy furniture. So replacing it would add to the cost, making them close to $1000 anyway.
A quality AR made to specs and able to last a long time, can be had for $600-800 and you don't need to buy a side rail mount to mount an optic.
If your primary concern is absolute rugged reliability after lots of neglect in the field... An AK fits that. It is heavier and less efficient than an AR though.
As far as neglect goes... Not likely a real concern, even for the prepper crowd. You just are not going to let your rifle sit neglected in water and mud for days and weeks. It's going to slung on your shoulder. A few rags and a quart of motor oil will last a long time in an emergency doomsday situation. It's not hard to wipe down an AR every now and then, it's not like they need to be kept spotless like some like to think.
So, in the end, most people just want a range toy. Either rifle is fine for that. If you have other concerns, then learn the facts about the platforms and make a choice.
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I've had one of my AR's action freeze up (lock down?) on me (not good) one day when I took it out of my safe; but I never had an AK/AKM action freeze up on me.
Though using the "mortar method" can unfreeze an AR's action.
Go to the range long enough...and you'll eventually come across a number of frozen AR actions --- That's why I carry a wooden handled rubber mallet in my range bag. And I never saw anyone else's AK/AKM action freeze up at the range either.
Though I did jam my AKM once...when I short stroked the charging handle, that resulted in a live 7.62x39 round jammed in the trigger group.
Though using the "mortar method" can unfreeze an AR's action.
Go to the range long enough...and you'll eventually come across a number of frozen AR actions --- That's why I carry a wooden handled rubber mallet in my range bag. And I never saw anyone else's AK/AKM action freeze up at the range either.
Though I did jam my AKM once...when I short stroked the charging handle, that resulted in a live 7.62x39 round jammed in the trigger group.
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The service AK is not more reliable than an service AR.
Just basic design, the AR action is much more protected and will function in conditions that shut down an AK.
AK
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU
AR
https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU
Just basic design, the AR action is much more protected and will function in conditions that shut down an AK.
AK
https://youtu.be/DX73uXs3xGU
AR
https://youtu.be/YAneTFiz5WU
Of the two, I think the AK can take more abuse. The pictures of the VC or NVA using their AK with an inserted magazine as a seat comes to mind.
Of the two, the AR is the more versatile and more accurate. Swap out the uppers and you can go from a target rifle to a battle rifle to a carbine. Swap out the upper and the buffer and you can have a submachinegun. It's Barbie for Boys or Lego for Men. They're easier to work on and can be built by the average guy (or gal) who has simple mechanical skills. The aluminium magazine lips can't take much abuse (I'm sure the Magpul mags are better).
Of the two, the AR is the more versatile and more accurate. Swap out the uppers and you can go from a target rifle to a battle rifle to a carbine. Swap out the upper and the buffer and you can have a submachinegun. It's Barbie for Boys or Lego for Men. They're easier to work on and can be built by the average guy (or gal) who has simple mechanical skills. The aluminium magazine lips can't take much abuse (I'm sure the Magpul mags are better).
I think it is legitimate to consider the Vietnam era weapons which established the reputation of both of these weapon systems. I would agree an M16A1 or older and most certainly one using the incorrect powder the Army first used would leave the AK well ahead in terms of reliability.
A modern M4 using modern ammunition simply beats the AK in almost every aspect but especially reliability.
marine6680
New member
I don't know about a modern AR type rifle being way ahead of the AK for reliability. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
There are definitely situations where the AR would fair better than an AK. With the much more open system of the AK, it is easier to get crud inside. It is a bit more tolerant of crud, but there will be a point where it causes issues. The AK does handle neglect better... Lack of any real attempt to clean, not enough lube, rust and just being poorly taken care of in general.
For the most part, the AR having a pretty sealed system makes it very reliable when in harsh conditions... But it can be susceptible to fine particulate matter in the air. Very fine powder and sand that is being blown constantly by the wind, can cause issues, as it creeps in. It can be dealt with effectively with proper lubrication. Many tend to think less or no lubrication is the key, to prevent the stuff from sticking to the lube... But generally more lube is better. The stuff is getting in either way, and lube keeps it from caking up to the point of preventing movement. It doesn't like neglect, and a few parts need to be watched, as they need replacing from time to time, like the firing pin retaining pin. But the AR doesn't need to be kept spotless either, you can run one for thousands of rounds and only keep adding lube from time to time to keep it going.
Both are going to have an issue if the chamber gets crud inside. No chamber is "loose", a couple grains of sand are enough to cause issues.
Generally the AR is just easier to live with... A bolt stop, non rock in mags, controls that are easier to use (but not perfect, not in mil spec form)... More modular for modern sights and assesories.
The lack of a bolt stop can be annoying on an AK... It's not an issue on a proper one, as they are meant to be use in full auto, you reload when the rifle stops going pew pew. A semi doesn't have that simple feed back... You just get that click and have to swap mags.
There are definitely situations where the AR would fair better than an AK. With the much more open system of the AK, it is easier to get crud inside. It is a bit more tolerant of crud, but there will be a point where it causes issues. The AK does handle neglect better... Lack of any real attempt to clean, not enough lube, rust and just being poorly taken care of in general.
For the most part, the AR having a pretty sealed system makes it very reliable when in harsh conditions... But it can be susceptible to fine particulate matter in the air. Very fine powder and sand that is being blown constantly by the wind, can cause issues, as it creeps in. It can be dealt with effectively with proper lubrication. Many tend to think less or no lubrication is the key, to prevent the stuff from sticking to the lube... But generally more lube is better. The stuff is getting in either way, and lube keeps it from caking up to the point of preventing movement. It doesn't like neglect, and a few parts need to be watched, as they need replacing from time to time, like the firing pin retaining pin. But the AR doesn't need to be kept spotless either, you can run one for thousands of rounds and only keep adding lube from time to time to keep it going.
Both are going to have an issue if the chamber gets crud inside. No chamber is "loose", a couple grains of sand are enough to cause issues.
Generally the AR is just easier to live with... A bolt stop, non rock in mags, controls that are easier to use (but not perfect, not in mil spec form)... More modular for modern sights and assesories.
The lack of a bolt stop can be annoying on an AK... It's not an issue on a proper one, as they are meant to be use in full auto, you reload when the rifle stops going pew pew. A semi doesn't have that simple feed back... You just get that click and have to swap mags.
The AR is superior in virtually every way that is pertinent to sporting use ....and most other uses also.
It has a vastly greater ammunition selection. Better trigger (and wildly better aftermarket triggers available). It is a simple gun to work on and modularity makes for ease of alteration. One can free float the barrel. The variations available for barrel length and rifling twist rate are staggering. The AR is, in general, more accurate at just about any range. Fast rifling rates and heavy (75-90 grains) bullets make the AR accurate out to 600 yards and beyond.
The much discussed ability to take abuse and still function reliably is, for the vast majority of use, a non issue; For most of us, the only place we ever see an AK or an AR in use is at the local range.
It has a vastly greater ammunition selection. Better trigger (and wildly better aftermarket triggers available). It is a simple gun to work on and modularity makes for ease of alteration. One can free float the barrel. The variations available for barrel length and rifling twist rate are staggering. The AR is, in general, more accurate at just about any range. Fast rifling rates and heavy (75-90 grains) bullets make the AR accurate out to 600 yards and beyond.
The much discussed ability to take abuse and still function reliably is, for the vast majority of use, a non issue; For most of us, the only place we ever see an AK or an AR in use is at the local range.
stagpanther
New member
I like em both too...
But in war conflicts...it was recommended that the AK magazine be loaded first with a tracer round, so the shooter could tell when his magazine was empty.
Though if I was a mercenary in a foreign land...I would prefer being outfitted the same as what most of the regular military conscripts or volunteers use there --- And if it's an AK or variation thereof --- so be it.
But in war conflicts...it was recommended that the AK magazine be loaded first with a tracer round, so the shooter could tell when his magazine was empty.
Though if I was a mercenary in a foreign land...I would prefer being outfitted the same as what most of the regular military conscripts or volunteers use there --- And if it's an AK or variation thereof --- so be it.
I'd like to say thank to all of you who have commented on my post. There is plenty to consider. I don't see myself getting real involved in building my own AR or customizing it. When it comes to rifles, I'm not a complicated guy. I've never shot an AK, but I have shot a very nice AR and enjoyed it. I'd be sure to try out an AK before making any decision. I have handled an AK and I like how it feels. Do not like the safety though. The ease of taking down an AR is a plus in my books, but the reputation of reliability and the ability to take a licken and keep on ticken with an AK is very attractive as well. Thanks again for all the food for thought.
"it was recommended that the AK magazine be loaded first with a tracer round, so the shooter could tell when his magazine was empty."
I varied the T-round from 2-5 up from the last so the BG's didn't figure out my mag was dry. I'd much rather drop a mag with 2-3 rounds remaining than be caught empty.
Old habits die hard, the stripper clips in my current B O B are loaded the same way. One stripper in each sleeve has a T-round at 2 and 5 from the bottom.
I varied the T-round from 2-5 up from the last so the BG's didn't figure out my mag was dry. I'd much rather drop a mag with 2-3 rounds remaining than be caught empty.
Old habits die hard, the stripper clips in my current B O B are loaded the same way. One stripper in each sleeve has a T-round at 2 and 5 from the bottom.
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That sounds logical...but if I fired that tracer round in a conflict, I probably would have a strong feeling too relocate --- Though I've never been involved in such a battlefield scenario, and our outdoor range bans the use of tracer rounds.
For many reasons, the AR is a superior platform to the AK. When there were only one or two manufacturers of AR's, this may not have been as easy to say. However, the AR has evolved and the AK is the same tired old rifle it was 40 years ago. Here are some reasons why the AR is superior:
1. Caliber options by simply swapping out the barreled upper.
2. Accuracy
3. Effective range.
4. Ability to make good use of high quality optics
5. Quality of the aluminum used in the receivers has improved substantially
6. Fire-control parts options, fantastic triggers
7. Binary-fire capability
8. ergonomics / more comfortable to shoot
9. higher capacity
10. large variety of barrel lengths, stocks, etc.
I would go so far as to say that what a civilian has available to him in an AR platform can in many instances be better than what is available to the military.
1. Caliber options by simply swapping out the barreled upper.
2. Accuracy
3. Effective range.
4. Ability to make good use of high quality optics
5. Quality of the aluminum used in the receivers has improved substantially
6. Fire-control parts options, fantastic triggers
7. Binary-fire capability
8. ergonomics / more comfortable to shoot
9. higher capacity
10. large variety of barrel lengths, stocks, etc.
I would go so far as to say that what a civilian has available to him in an AR platform can in many instances be better than what is available to the military.
So what approx. distance does the modern tracer round light-up after it leaves the muzzle? Before a SRSO caught two members shooting tracer rounds at our range --- It looked about 75 yards.
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Ignition Override
New member
A former coworker had said nothing about any military service until I finally asked him about some unusual stickers on his leather bag. In a quiet voice he said "Army Special Ops" in Desert Storm.
As we approached the Courtyard Elisabeth Hotel at EWR Airport about seven years ago, the short layover hotel for crews, I asked Rick (he was a DTW 320/319 FO) to compare US and Russian-designed rifles.
He only had time to state "When our rifles jammed, we picked up AKs", very detached and matter-of-fact, as the shuttle parked at the curb. There was no time to enquire whether this was necessary during some windy days etc, or how worn out their rifles were.
As we approached the Courtyard Elisabeth Hotel at EWR Airport about seven years ago, the short layover hotel for crews, I asked Rick (he was a DTW 320/319 FO) to compare US and Russian-designed rifles.
He only had time to state "When our rifles jammed, we picked up AKs", very detached and matter-of-fact, as the shuttle parked at the curb. There was no time to enquire whether this was necessary during some windy days etc, or how worn out their rifles were.
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