Accurate semi-auto in 7.62x39?

[Sriracha]

Hi everyone,

What are your thoughts on the best accuracy per cost for autoloading 7.62x39? The purpose would mainly be sport shooting and plinking (perhaps occasional shorter range hunting of deer/hogs if legal and appropriate). Would I see much difference if I'm using Wolf ammo and iron sights? What about with high quality ammo for hunting?

The types of guns I am considering include:
Mini-30
SKS
AK variants, Saiga, etc.
CZ VZ-58

I am not considering bolt action rifles for now, although I know of the Remington 799 and CZ-527.

Thanks everyone,
-Sriracha

 

[Crosshair]

The Mini-30 has the largest potential for ultimate accuracy, but it will cost money. Then again, so does accurizing an AR-15.

Out of the box accuracy? That would go the the Mini and the vz58. To me, the VZ58 is attractive because you can load it straight from stripper clips, reducing the need for extra magazines.

 

[kiwi56]

7.62 x 39 accuracy

For most of the rifles you mentioned a fair amount of work is needed to get a comparable accuracy to most bolt action sporting rifles. I went through this on my SKS D model and reduced groups down to consistantly group at about 1.5 inches at 100 metres (110 yards) with reloads just over two inches with cheap ammo, this is the point where I felt that any further gains were only going to come at even greater expense.
I know there are some people on the forum here that say their SKS consistantly shoots sub MOA but personally myself I have never seen one shoot anything like that. A friend used Accuracy international's products on his Min14 Ranch rifle well that rifle shoots just over MOA but the rifle now owes him around $2900 and that is far much more than I would have been prepared to spend on any Mini14.

 

[1832]

My vote would be for getting an AR, or a complete AR lower, then get a complete 7.62x39 upper for it. I went for the Model 1 Sales upper and it will easily do 1.50 to 1.75 MOA at a 100 yds, even with the cheapest steel cased ammo.

 

[mete]

Check out www.rifledynamics.com they specialize in working with the 7.62x39 .

 

[olyinaz]

Frankly, you'd do best to get an AR in 7.62x39 if you're hot for that round and are concerned at all with accuracy.

I've got an AK and an SKS and I love 'em but I don't look to drive tacks with 'em.

Oly

 

[MMcfpd]

To echo a bit what's already been noted: when I put together a 7.62x39mm AR-15 a few years ago I was surprised at the improvement in accuracy over my AK and SKSs. And I was also taken aback by how much difference in accuracy I saw between shooting brass like Prvi and the steel case (Wolf, et al). After a while I sold my AK (kept the SKSs).

 

[tkcomer]

Generally, the AR platform will be the most accurate. But don't expect it to shoot one hole groups with any of the “animal” brands of ammo. To get accuracy, ya have to handload. Here's mine with a few test rounds and some old mil surp I shot: http://www.pixagogo.com/2651684975

 

[Kmar40]

Accuracy and Ruger Mini can't be said in the same sentence. It's like saying classy and Madonna in the same sentence. Or Rosie and skinny.

Ditto with the AK.

I don't have experience with the VZ58 but I've heard some good things.

I'd guess a quality SKS (not Chinese or Yugo) or Saiga will do best out of the box.

You have the additional problem that most of the ammo available in 7.62x39 isn't accurate, and the whole .308 vs. .311 bullet/barrel issue.

 

[Crosshair]

I don't get you AR fanboys? the AR isn't some magical beast that shoots .5 MOA groups with everything. The guys over at the Box-O-Truth demonstrated that quite clearly.

I've outshot ARs before with my .223 Saiga AK and my friend is scary accurate with his open sighted Mini-30 so please stop pretending that anything that isn't an AR is not worthy of attention.

For what the OP is looking for, an AK or a Mini will do everything the AR does at a fraction of the price. They said they are going to be short range hunting hogs and deer with it, not shooting dimes at 400 yards. Any gun that can shoot 5 MOA or better is suitable for hogs and deer. Virtually any Mini-30 is capable of half that and, if it isn't, with a few well known cheap/no cost mods it will be. Same with a quality AK. Even more so if you actually use quality ammo. No they won't be MOA tack drivers without serious mods, but they don't need to be for the task at hand.

In terms of bang for the buck, an AK or Mini will do the OP just fine and they can spend the extra money on a few cases of ammo.

 

[Lashlarue]

Any of the AK's with milled receivers are as accurate as most ARs.Galil's , even the Century builds eliminate some of the harmoniics that the stamped versions cannot overcome.A milled receiver with a threaded barrel will almost always be more accurate than a stamped receiver with a pinned barrel. My Norinco SKS had a milled receiver, but I could never find an optic that wpould hold zero.But when I bought it in 90 for $99,I wanted a fun rifle and it was! Put close to 2000 rounds through it, then sold in in 2002 for $350. The copper washed norinco ammo ran through it like crap through a goose. not one jam or failure of any kind. regret selling it to this day as fore end mounts have become available. The norinco ammo was steel core and was considered armor piercing, and banned from import. Ive seen a 30.06 with a jacketed lead bullet, pierce 1/4" armor plate.Saiga in x39 are fairly accurate and as they say the best bang for your buck.I have one in 223, sub 3" groups at 100 yds, not Ar accurate, but can hit a watermelon at 600 yds.Part of my shtf kit

 

[chris in va]

Sounds to me like you'd want a Saiga. They run about $400 for the x39 version. Trigger isn't all that mainly because it's been 'neutered' to fit the sporting/hunting configuration, but that can be easily fixed with a Tapco trigger group.

Don't discount the CZ 527 though. I find it more fun to shoot than my Saiga.

Lashlarue...when you gonna move that pistol grip up?

 

[TheNev]

I'd guess a quality SKS (not Chinese or Yugo) or Saiga will do best out of the box.

My Yugo is of very high quality. Not sure where you got that info from.

As far as accuracy, I had 5" groups with my Yugo with open sights, unsupported at 75yds with Wolf military classic ammo.

Accurate enough for my needs.

 

[kiwi56]

7.62 X 39

I love my two SKS rifles but if it were me looking for a deer cartridge I would be tempted to go for the Norinco M305 in 308 a little more knockdown power and able to drop deer at a greater range than the x39 cartridge. Still plenty of cheap ammo available for plinking and better range of quality ammo for hunting.

 

[L_Killkenny]

This is getting deep in here, where's my hip waders. The answers are none of the above and no, you won't see much improvement if you keep shooting cheap ammo and using stock open sights.

The fact remains that for short range (100 yards and under) plinking and hunting that a gun that shoots 4 moa will generally do as well as a gun that shoots 1 moa. The biggest improvement you will see is better ammo and better sights. Without those, even a 1 moa AR sucks. Most production bolt guns will shoot 1 moa with quality handloads but if you feed them the cheapest ammo you can find they will shoot 2 moa or worse. Same can be said about those bolt guns if you stick crappy sights on em.

But in general, no AK or SKS is gonna be termed as accurate by a "rifleman". They definitely don't get better with cheap ammo. There's a reson you don't see em toted around by varmint and predator hunters or on the line at matches.

LK

 

[HankC1]

7.62x39 is 300 yd effective anyway. Difference between "good" and "bad" ammo may not be that much at this distance. Below are 2 consective groups of my Remington 799 bolt gun with 2 types of Wolf ammo from yesterday. The 2nd picture is actually 6 round group with 1 replacement shot for the flyer which is my fault. The 5 "good" shots touching each other and overlap. Wolf is not known as good ammo. Wolf MC HP is .310 and Wolf FMJ is .308 I believe. Show effect on point of impact, but not so much on accuracy. Not bad to me out of my 799. My Norinco SKSs are pretty good once triggers are tuned and put on a scope with decent scope mount. Trigger and open sight are the limitations of SKS. Make sure the action is tight in stock too. My Norinco SKS can shoot as well as my FALs. My SKSs are generally at least 1/2 the group size of my AKs when compared on open sights. Mini-14 Mini-30 did not have a good repution on accuracy in the past and the price is at least twice of SKS, why bother.

 

[tkcomer]

I've had a SKS. I've had a Mini-30. The Mini-30 was more accurate than the SKS. My AR is more accurate than the Mini. Ammo is the key. Ya can't get good groups with crappy ammo out of any of these guns. But my AR will group better than the other two. My Mini was more than acceptable for hogs at 100 yards. As long as ya didn't heat it up. It would still print a 6” group when hot. It's just that the AR is more accurate with any ammo I put through it. Hot or not.

 

[Kmar40]

My Yugo is of very high quality. Not sure where you got that info from.

Experience. Military (special forces) and law enforcement since 1985.

As far as accuracy, I had 5" groups with my Yugo with open sights, unsupported at 75yds with Wolf military classic ammo.

Accurate enough for my needs.

Some people have different definitions of accurate I suppose.

My Mini was more than acceptable for hogs at 100 yards. As long as ya didn't heat it up. It would still print a 6” group when hot.

See above. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder apparently.

My SKSs are generally at least 1/2 the group size of my AKs when compared on open sights.

Yep, that's my experience also, although I know there are some poor quality SKS out there. My Russian was a nice shooter. Sights (as always with Combloc stuff) was the limitation.

 

[Onward Allusion]

As much as I love the AK platform, I would have to say that for accuracy, I would get an AR in 7.62x39. AK's and all of the variants are wonderfully reliable firearms, but they are not meant for longer distance sub-MOA (or even MOA) work. The Mini-30 would probably come closest.

Sriracha
Accurate semi-auto in 7.62x39?
Hi everyone,
What are your thoughts on the best accuracy per cost for autoloading 7.62x39? The purpose would mainly be sport shooting and plinking (perhaps occasional shorter range hunting of deer/hogs if legal and appropriate). Would I see much difference if I'm using Wolf ammo and iron sights? What about with high quality ammo for hunting?
The types of guns I am considering include:
Mini-30
SKS
AK variants, Saiga, etc.
CZ VZ-58
I am not considering bolt action rifles for now, although I know of the Remington 799 and CZ-527.
Thanks everyone,
-Sriracha

 

[NATIONALIST]

get a yugo M70B1 or M70AB2. i have both and the are accurate rifles.