Acceptable Precision

FrankenMauser

New member
I have not read the above replies.
I wanted to get my own thoughts down without any influence.

My personal standards are probably a bit more lax than some others here will claim.
But, it pretty much boils down to:
Big game: I want a first-round, cold-bore impact on a deer-sized heart, at any range I am willing to take the shot. For short range, I, of course, have higher standards. A 4-5" group at 100-150 yards is not acceptable. But for 300+ yds, I just need confidence in that roughly heart-sized target.

Small game: I want a first-round impact on a squirrel head, with no horizontal dispersion. With rimfire, a little vertical stringing is expected with most ammo, but that allows for a bullet to drop into the neck or chest, depending on range. I still want repeatability on that head-sized target, but vertical fudge factor helps. A squirrel head impact also works for rabbits and grouse. (Grouse are legal to take in Idaho with more than just a shotgun.)


That being said, just because I have confidence in long range shots doesn't mean I want to take them. I prefer closing the distance, regardless of what the rifle can do. I have made head shots on antelope beyond 400 and 600 yards, as well as 'boiler room'. But that doesn't mean I would do it again. I was younger, stupider, and still learning.
My average range for Antelope is well under 200 yards, and the long shots skew the average. Without the long shots, I believe my average is closer to 125 yards. Lazy hunters and people that haven't hunted them are always claiming that 400-700 yards is the norm, but I hunt speedgoats in some of the flattest, most open ground in Wyoming and still hold an average well under 200 yards. It doesn't take much effort to get close, if you read the terrain and animals, and just try.


I was talking with an old timer at the range last Monday, after he noticed that I was shooting at 330 and 375 yards with a scoped .22, as well as 50-200 yd with an iron-sighted .22; between shots with my 6.5x284 Norma.
He worked through three rifles from 300-375 yd, before turning to another that required backing up to 100 to troubleshoot a scope. (It turned out to just be different loads shooting to radically different POIs horizontally.)

Our discussion of testing and 'playing' at long range turned into a very long and heated discussion about the current craze of "long range hunting."
Both of us had rifles and ammunition capable of 700+ yard shots on antelope, up to moose, and neither of us wanted to even attempt such.
"If you can't get closer than 200 yards, then you're doing something wrong. It isn't the animal or the terrain, it is you."

*I'll allow some stretching of shots for game like bighorn sheep and mtn goat. Sometimes, you just can't get closer. But I don't hunt them, so I still hold those shots at some level of contempt.


As for reigning back in the "long range hunting" fantasy, I do not know.
As long as shows and social media posts make it seem like the norm, people easily influenced by those outlets will continue to believe.

Last year, there was a video going around of a "perfect" shot on a bull elk at something like 890 yards (with some form of 6mm if iirc). But you can see the trace and the impact, as the elk took a step while the bullet was in flight. Absolutely perfect gut shot.
Luckily for the shooter, the bull stumbled and paused just long enough for an actual kill shot.
But crap like that propagates the myth and continues to influence people that don't recognize how terrible that first shot actually was. The shooter did everything right (except getting closer), and the situation still went sideways.
 

Paul B.

New member
Quote:
As I said, I do not like to take shots that far out but sometimes, one just does not have the choice.
"From what you wrote, you seem to take the matter seriously, ethically and do seriously practice in order to be capable of making those long shots.

That being said, I have to disagree on one point, and that is, you always have a choice."

That's true. First off, I was familiar with the area. Mountainous foothills and many very wide open flat, some literally miles in any direction. By opening day the influx of hunters will get the elk moving right into those wide open spaces where they can see a hunter coming from a long way off. Usually by the following morning you won't see an elk to save you life. They all head for the White Mountain Apache Reservation which is located in the area. What few elk still around hare nocturnal and in the foothills.
When I shot my elk, Id crawled for over an hour and what behind the last bush between me and the elk. It was about 8 in the morning, the air perfectly still. I had a good sitting position and the hold looked good. It was a shot I'd made numerous times at the range so decided to take the shot. So yes, I had a choice. If I'd had any doubts, I would not have squeezed the trigger.
I can honestly say that I've only lost two animals since I started hunting in 1949. One deer due to what I believe was bullet failure and the other due to possible bullet failure and human failure. The first a guess as to what happened due to the bullet being too tough and acting like a solid and possible the factory load not delivering advertised velocity as determine later by chronograph. Deer number two was properly hit but I think the bullet blew up on impact It was one of the very first run of 7MM Ballistic Tips that came with a too thin jacket. Human failure is when going up the hill to look for the deer, my foot rolled on some loose rock and I blew my right knee out. My hunting parters had to help me off the hill and refused to look for the deer. Funny thing is both deer were shot with a 7MM Mauser. Add the fact that I was planning to use a 7MM Mauser on another hunt and was in a bad car accident on the way to the range to check the scope prior to leaving for a planned guided hunt leads me to believe the cartridge is a jinx, at least for me. That was on January 2, 2020 BTW and I have been unable to do a hunt ever since. I still have the urge.
Paul B.
 

FITASC

New member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
There is no shame in that. There is no failure in that. I consider NOT taking a questionable shot to be an ethical win.
It takes more courage to abort a shot. I heard this from an instructor. It has become my own motto since.

Sounds like the understatement here is that a lot of "qualified" long range shooters don't know what they are doing. But yet it is ok to "hunt" an animal 1k yd away. I should remain ignorant.

-TL

I agree. Sorry, if you cannot get to within 300 yards or so, then instead of doping the wind for a shot, you should be doping the wind to get closer; this is hunting, not shooting when it involves live game.
 
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