About to Buy a Heavy Duty Handgun
- Thread starter HWS
- Start date
I suppose your shooting experience is a relevant question. A 4 inch 44 model 629 might be a good choice or a Kimber Target II 1911 10mm. A 357 mag is also an option and the GP100 would be my suggestion for that caliber. I would avoid 45 ACP, 40 S&W or 9mm for what you want. Even 38 super would be anemic for bear.
10MM ammo is very watered down for most loads so you have to plan on buying a more premium ammo for true 10mm ballistics. Most people should be able to handle a 10mm. An auto can jam if you are in contact with a bear.
357 mag 158gr Soft Points at 1250fps may be the max recoil a newbie can shoot well and you can learn to shoot the gun with cheaper 38 special ammo. A revolver isn't going to jam when the muzzle is in contact with a bear.
The typical 44 mag ammo is going to be plenty powerful but may be too much gun for a novice especially in a lighter 4 inch gun. You can shoot 44 specials out of a 44 mag but they are still expensive so there is no significant cost benefit there like 38 special vs. 357 mag.
So for woods use I think you have 3 good choices. A glock is very light but it would also be pretty snappy with 10mm.
10MM ammo is very watered down for most loads so you have to plan on buying a more premium ammo for true 10mm ballistics. Most people should be able to handle a 10mm. An auto can jam if you are in contact with a bear.
357 mag 158gr Soft Points at 1250fps may be the max recoil a newbie can shoot well and you can learn to shoot the gun with cheaper 38 special ammo. A revolver isn't going to jam when the muzzle is in contact with a bear.
The typical 44 mag ammo is going to be plenty powerful but may be too much gun for a novice especially in a lighter 4 inch gun. You can shoot 44 specials out of a 44 mag but they are still expensive so there is no significant cost benefit there like 38 special vs. 357 mag.
So for woods use I think you have 3 good choices. A glock is very light but it would also be pretty snappy with 10mm.
Urbanrecon
Moderator
Generally speaking only if you are concentrating on the big deposit you're about to make in your pants and you limp-wrist your pistol.
No matter what gun you choose, make sure you go and shoot the gun to get use to it. You don't have time to think when you see a bear, you can only rely on muscle memory and do things automatically. Practice is the only way. If you buy a magnum, make sure you shoot until you are comfortable with the loud pop and the big recoil.
Practice, don't just buy and carry.
Practice, don't just buy and carry.
Cosmodragoon
New member
There are no grizzlies in my neck of the woods either. Most of the larger wild life tends to stay away or can often be scared away. That includes black bears, cats, coyotes, and moose. Of course, bad situations can happen so it's wise to be prepared.
While I reserve 9mm for civilization, I don't feel like I need a hand cannon for any of those animals. I used to carry a 686 in .357 magnum but as I've gotten older, it seems to have gotten heavier. Now I usually carry either .40 S&W or .357 Sig in the woods.
While I reserve 9mm for civilization, I don't feel like I need a hand cannon for any of those animals. I used to carry a 686 in .357 magnum but as I've gotten older, it seems to have gotten heavier. Now I usually carry either .40 S&W or .357 Sig in the woods.
tuckerdog1
New member
Glock 20 or 29. Problem solved.
Anything that can eat me gets a 45 Colt with a 280gr RCBS SAA SWC. At 1050fps, it blows through Bears, leaving fist sized holes to 40 yards. If you don't reload, get a 357 Ruger and use Buffalo Bore Hard Cast. I prefer the Blackhawk because of it's ruggedness. Many will say DA for follow-up shots; however, when a lion or bear comes for you, it's at close range and you won't get a second shot. That's why I like the 45 - if you're off center a little, it will still gravely injure them.
I think your own skill level and the ammo used will matter more than the platform.
A few years ago, a guide killed a brown bear in Alaska with 7 rounds of 9mm from a compact Smith and Wesson pistol.
He used buffalo bore 147 gr 9mm hardcast I believe. I think it may be +p.
There are also the outdoorsman rounds in 38 special (a 158 gr +p hardcast) , 357 (180 gr hardcast), 45 and most other rounds.
There is even 380 acp hardcast rounds. 100 gr. You have to wonder how much they would really differ from the 9mm used effectively.
If you've ever seen combat then you know how you'll respond in a seconds matter life or death situation (which an attack by a bear would definitely qualify).
Suppose the guide carried a sig p238 loaded with 7 rounds of the 380 100 gr hardcast, would results be the same?
Personally, I vote yes because the guy could handle himself, he knew bears anatomy so he knew where to aim, and both rounds will get significant penetration even through barriers (in this case, fat, muscle, bone).
The point being: training, know how you react. Platform, know what you shoot best and what you're willing to carry (all the time). Today, ammunition exists that can get the job done in most calibers.
Would a 44 magnum have been better? It's the traditional bear medicine. That guide probably wishes, but he got it done and chose the right "arrow".
Loaded up with premium jhp rounds, that story would have a different ending.
Hardcast plus p flat points in numerous calibers can get the job done, so know the anatomy and which type of gun you can fire quickly and accurately.
A few years ago, a guide killed a brown bear in Alaska with 7 rounds of 9mm from a compact Smith and Wesson pistol.
He used buffalo bore 147 gr 9mm hardcast I believe. I think it may be +p.
There are also the outdoorsman rounds in 38 special (a 158 gr +p hardcast) , 357 (180 gr hardcast), 45 and most other rounds.
There is even 380 acp hardcast rounds. 100 gr. You have to wonder how much they would really differ from the 9mm used effectively.
If you've ever seen combat then you know how you'll respond in a seconds matter life or death situation (which an attack by a bear would definitely qualify).
Suppose the guide carried a sig p238 loaded with 7 rounds of the 380 100 gr hardcast, would results be the same?
Personally, I vote yes because the guy could handle himself, he knew bears anatomy so he knew where to aim, and both rounds will get significant penetration even through barriers (in this case, fat, muscle, bone).
The point being: training, know how you react. Platform, know what you shoot best and what you're willing to carry (all the time). Today, ammunition exists that can get the job done in most calibers.
Would a 44 magnum have been better? It's the traditional bear medicine. That guide probably wishes, but he got it done and chose the right "arrow".
Loaded up with premium jhp rounds, that story would have a different ending.
Hardcast plus p flat points in numerous calibers can get the job done, so know the anatomy and which type of gun you can fire quickly and accurately.
Live and walk in areas with bears and large cats; normal is a 9mm H&K, and meeting up with three cats in the past few years, the 9 has been excellent. Just shoot into the ground in front of them and they take off. Bears, with two large dogs, they usually go about their business as I do. Best things to learn is do not surprise them and do not go near if there are cubs.
For the lions you don't see, it makes no difference what you are carrying, they will be on you before you know what's happening.
When I camp in grizzly area, which I do all the time (MT/WY) my normal carry is a .40 FN HC Buffalo bore 200 gr. Sometimes, if the area is noted to have active bears, my .44 with some 305 gr ammo.
At the campsite, I do have a 12 gauge loaded with 600 gr Brenneke black magic slugs.
For the lions you don't see, it makes no difference what you are carrying, they will be on you before you know what's happening.
When I camp in grizzly area, which I do all the time (MT/WY) my normal carry is a .40 FN HC Buffalo bore 200 gr. Sometimes, if the area is noted to have active bears, my .44 with some 305 gr ammo.
At the campsite, I do have a 12 gauge loaded with 600 gr Brenneke black magic slugs.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
As far a grizzly, I doubt you would even get more than one shot Imho. High Capacity is not the answer to every thing in defensive shooting for man or beast.Under stress making good hits might be a challenge on a moving target.
Sure would suck to fire off all 6 rounds in a revolver and the threat (attack) not be stopped.
10mm Glock 20SF or 29SF if under a 10 round mag limit.
A 10mm 1911 wouldn't be bad either.
Even with the 1911 you get 50% more capacity than a 6 shot revolver.
Kreyzhorse
New member
Three choices as far as I'm concerned. A .357, a 10mm or a .44 mag. A 10mm is probably the easiest to carry and shoot in a semi auto platform but all of them are up to the task.
At this point, it really depends on what you prefer.
At this point, it really depends on what you prefer.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
In Grizzly country, I doubt there is much of any advice I would take other than just stay out. I normally shoot a ton of 9mm ammo in practice and training. IF i had to go into Grizzly country, and had to choose a weapon, I am not sure at all what I would carry, but you can bet that I would train consistently as I do for self defense EDC which means thousands of rounds. Perhaps even more. Having to be so damn good a shot as to hit a massive Machine coming at you with ultra fast speed solid muscle mass, thick massive bone structure is for the best of the best. You have to hit this lightening force in the center of the brain that is akin to hitting a Baseball size object throwm at you.
Check out this one PAW. It alone is a heinous weapon in itself. I would not go charging off to Alaska in Griz territory just from listening to internet posters without having a whole lot of Preparation and packed with a whole lot of experience.
https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2015/07/14/grizzly_bear_paw.jpg
Check out this one PAW. It alone is a heinous weapon in itself. I would not go charging off to Alaska in Griz territory just from listening to internet posters without having a whole lot of Preparation and packed with a whole lot of experience.
https://media.spokesman.com/photos/2015/07/14/grizzly_bear_paw.jpg
Bullet construction seems to be one of the most important factors. If all I had was a 9mm with FMJ ammo I'd use it in an emergency. However a 40 with FMJ or a 10mm or a 357 with 158SP would be better. I think the main thing is you must figure out what you can carry comfortably. Even a 38 super properly loaded may work but you won't know until after you survived.
I'd say avoid 45 ACP due to low speed and more limited penetration. 9x23 is also an option.
I'd say avoid 45 ACP due to low speed and more limited penetration. 9x23 is also an option.
The G29 in 10mm was my solution. I had the slightly larger G20 and liked it, but the smaller G29 gives up nothing in accuracy for me and if having a compact gun is important it comes with 10 round mags. I can use the 15 round G20 mags in it as well. As a camping pistol I like the ability to use a mounted light at night. I've camped in Yellowstone a few times, the 10mm went with me, the Smith 629 in 44 mag stayed home
The key is the better bullets. The heavy for caliber hardcast bullets in 10mm, 40 S&W, 357 mag, and even 9mm have proven effective. In tests the 147 gr 9mm bullet gave the deepest penetration 5'+. They only had 5' of gel and didn't recover the bullets. That is the load Phil Shoemaker used to take down an attacking Alaskan Brown bear a few years ago.
https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
But I still can't wrap my mind around 9mm for that role. The 200 gr 10mm and 255 gr 45 ACP didn't match 9mm for penetration, but I feel better with either of those.
When I made the move to 10mm these bullets weren't available. Today I'm not so sure I wouldn't just as soon have a 45 ACP with those loads.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=155
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=161
The key is the better bullets. The heavy for caliber hardcast bullets in 10mm, 40 S&W, 357 mag, and even 9mm have proven effective. In tests the 147 gr 9mm bullet gave the deepest penetration 5'+. They only had 5' of gel and didn't recover the bullets. That is the load Phil Shoemaker used to take down an attacking Alaskan Brown bear a few years ago.
https://www.americanhunter.org/arti...ishermen-from-raging-grizzly-with-9mm-pistol/
But I still can't wrap my mind around 9mm for that role. The 200 gr 10mm and 255 gr 45 ACP didn't match 9mm for penetration, but I feel better with either of those.
When I made the move to 10mm these bullets weren't available. Today I'm not so sure I wouldn't just as soon have a 45 ACP with those loads.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=155
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=161
You don't currently have a handgun, right? Or previous skill with a handgun??
Heavy recoiling rounds (particularly .44Mag) are POOR choices for beginners.
If you are a beginner, I'd recommend getting a .22LR and learning to shoot a handgun well, THEN go looking at a bigger, more powerful round.
(in normal times, that's the way to go. Currently with the shortages of everything, get something you can get ammo for, and go from there)
No handgun is going to stop anything if you don't hit it, and hit it in the RIGHT place.
Unless you are one of the rare "naturals" learning to shoot a handgun accurately takes practice and learning to do it FAST and accurate is toughest of all. Lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) are not impressed with what it says on the barrel or the size of the hole in the muzzle.
I chose the S&W 629 4". Others choose the Ruger Redhawk or Super Redhawk. You can put hotter loads in the Redhawk. The downside to the Redhawk is that it is very heavy and feels a bit unbalanced in the hand. I tried to like my RH 4", but it didn't work out. I liked the Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 44. It jumps a bit but is really fun with Remington UMC 180 grain SJHP 44 Magnum ammo.
You know you want one. Go ahead and do it. Get it over with. Everyone needs one. Some of us want more, or even buy more, but you need at least one. You will love to hate it, but you will not sell it. Yep, a hand cannon. All of the big boys make at least one model. They get great mileage because a box of ammo lasts longer than 357s of 44s of any variation. You can sleep at night without bear scare. Hand cannons make folks smile. See, even thinking about owning one reduces your fear of bears.