A really ugly shooting from Philly...

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SauerGrapes

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I haven't been following the story because it's on the news all the time in Philly. Someone is always shooting someone else every night. I end up tuning it out after a while.
The City of Philadelphia is not friendly to anyone carrying a gun. Open carry is legal in Philly only if you have a LTCF.
It doesn't matter if the guy had the gun in a case or not. He's allowed to transport it to and from a range,gun shop, mom's house, etc. There also are no brandishing laws in the state of Pennsylvania.
This is the kind of BS that keeps me from doing anything in Philly if I can avoid it.
 

Casimer

New member
As usual... conflicting reports, and not enough information to say for sure what led up to the shooting.

Unfortunately most Philly news outlets have very loose standards when it comes to reporting incidents like this. You'll drive yourself crazy trying to get to the facts of the matter.

The two aspects that raise red flags for me, which are consistent across the reporting, are the officer's conduct after the shooting, and the point that Glenn brings up - why did he pursue Taylor into the home? If he truly believed that Taylor had pointed his pistol at him, why would he blindly pursue him into a house?
 
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SRH78

New member
Wow...

According to the story, the LEO who was in plain clothes wasn't threatened until after he forced his way into the man's home with weapon drawn. I don't see this ending well and it definitely doesn't look good. I had a much longer post typed up but I will just leave it at that.
 
DNS, your comment on the girlfriend escapes me. She's said right along that she was in the house, so what point are you trying to make? That she didn't see whatever led up to the shooting? She didn't say she was, only that when Taylor came into the house, he closed the door, and the gun was in his back pocket, and that she witnessed the shooting in her home, as did her two kids.

If the point escapes you, then I don't think you have read her statements or the OP very closely. The OP claimed that the officer said a gun was pointed at him, but that witness statements were to the contrary. There were NO witness statements to the contrary. There are none supporting, but contrary to the OP, nothing to the contrary. FYI, I looked at 30+ accounts trying to find out if JM's contrary witness accounts could be found, but nothing could be found.

The girlfriend, Britton, has made all sorts of comments about what went on. She claims that there was no disagreement on the street. There were no words exchanged over a parking place. She stated that there were no sounds from the street at all and that the first sign of trouble of which she was aware was when her boyfriend burst in the house and then the cop came in and shot him.

So yeah, she is claiming to know what led up to the shooting and stating in interviews what happened before the time of which she had any idea what happened. She says her husband never pointed a gun at the cop. She can't possibly know that. She says there was no altercation. Witnesses who were outside actually witnessed it. She says there was no argument over a parking spot, but once again, she wasn't there and it was witnessed. These statements were strong enough that the OP apparently believed she was a witness. 2guns apparently believed it as well. She certainly speaks like she is a witness, stating definitively what did and did not go on before her boyfriend was shot.

And what is up with all the folks here noting that the gun was unloaded. If Taylor did point it at the cop, would the cop know it was unloaded? Of course not. It doesn't matter if it was unloaded or not in terms of what is being perceived at the muzzle end of it.

One article mentioned that IA found a casing three or so feet outside the door, as though that called into question whether the shooting could have taken place inside. Three feet is well inside the throw range of any of my autos, and if the cop opened the door, entered, and shot, that's where I'd expect to find brass, about three feet outside.

My 1911 throws brass about 7-10 feet. We did car drills at Thunder Ranch where I was on the driver's side and firing and my brass was hitting my partner outsdie of the passenger side AFTER traveling through the interior of the car. I agree. If the door was open, it could be no problem for brass to be outside even if he was a few feet in the house.

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With all this said, my disounting of the girlfriend's comments and such, I can't see where the cop did anything right. I am not sure that he has to call in anything while it is occurring and he may not have had the capability to do so being off duty, but I can't imagine the cop claiming (some time in the future) that he ran away and hid at his sister's place after shooting Taylor because he was scared of possible repurcussions from Britton or her kids. At most, he would have retreated to cover outside of the house and awaited backup, right? He knew it would have to be coming, that somebody would call 911.
 

MLeake

New member
DNS, you and I must have read different articles and seen different videos. I have seen nothing where she claimed to know what happened outside. The comments I heard her make on video were that the first she knew of it was when Taylor ran into the house.

The neighbor who was interviewed said they had an argument loud enough to get his attention. However, he was outside.

I see no discrepancies here, just two very different vantage points.

Pretty sure, though, that if ANY witness had seen Taylor point a weapon, PPD brass would be shouting that to the press.

And again, the major flag for me is the officer's behavior after the shooting.
 

Uncle Buck

New member
Something else that has been bothering me about this report.

The officer entered the house, looked at the girlfriend, shoots the guy and leaves.

Lets say everything else is OK with the scenario leading up to this part of the encounter... Why would he just look at her and not order her to the floor? Order her to raise her hands? Tell her not to move?

Nothing in any training I have ever had taught me to ignore a possible threat. If I were chasing an armed man into a house/apartment, I would be concerned for my safety and anyone I found there would be put under control.

This just sounds more and more like a case of road rage taken to a wrong, disastrous level.
 

nathaniel

New member
This just sounds more and more like a case of road rage taken to a wrong, disastrous level.

Bingo! Sounds to me like a 17 year veteran lost his cool and made the wrong move. If this woulda been two civilians the shooter would be locked up by now.

Edit: Dont get me wrong I hold the utmost respect for law enforcement officers (Im actually going to start school for criminal justice here in a year or two). But wrong is wrong doesnt matter if its a cop, the pope, or president obama, the law isnt and shouldnt be different for anyone.
 
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Uncle Buck

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Although the article referenced a difference shooting, if this is representative of the mindset of the PPD, it is one scary situation.
 

Deerhunter

New member
I haven't had a chance to read every reply...however..

If I was carrying one of my guns into the house and someone came running at me, I would run into the house if the gun was not loaded. I think one thing that can be agreed upon is that this police officer was off duty, I am guessing and maybe I missed it but was no in uniform. So if I run into my house and he follows me in I am thinking as I believe a lot of people would that this is some nut wanting to rob me. Who knows if the guy with the unloaded pistol knew the off duty cop had a gun. Maybe the best thing he could come up with was to point it at the guy and hope that just having the gun the guy would leave. Either way.....cop or not come running at me and kick in my door and I will likely be shooting you. The cop should have announced himself as such. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't but if he didn't they should throw the book at the guy.
 

TailGator

New member
It is difficult to discern what led up to the shooting, with conflicting reports about a dispute over a parking place and whether or not the civilian pointed a gun at the shooter. The one detail that stands out to me is and does not seem to be in dispute is that the shooter ran away after the shooting. That is not the way a LEO would act if he thought he was lawfully apprehending a criminal or a suspect.

My bet is that as we learn more about this situation, even if some of it is unflattering to Taylor, it is going to become apparent that the cop reacted with unjustified rage to something.
 

Casimer

New member
if this is representative of the mindset of the PPD, it is one scary situation.

I don't know how pervasive it is, but it's there. Here's an encounter that depicts the attitude pretty well - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-vUYeJXSrA

*NSFW, lots of swearing

The sergeant who is recorded at the beginning is like an old Philly cop, and the backup that arrives is the new Philly cop. Notice how the sergeant is trying to calm the other cops down.
 

JustThisGuy

New member
It's still a pretty good argument for transporting guns in their gun cases.

If the gun was in his hand walking to the car, that's just not very smart. In many jurisdictions, Gun in hand = about to use.

It's a good idea to keep a gun holstered or in its case. Just my opinion.
 

Kodyo

New member
Any idea of the outcome of the victims condition?
A quick google search yields nothing but what's already been said.
 

Glenn E. Meyer

New member
We are going nowhere, so I'm closing it.

Deleted three posts that were just folks preaching a touch about cops.

Important points were made before that.
 
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