A NeW Full AUTO laW?
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MitchSchaft
New member
Thanks for explaining yourself, man. A lot of people don't know the laws or are misled. That's probably part of the reason why we're in the situation we are. Yes, those laws are a direct violation of the 2nd Amendment. How can they do that, you ask? I have no f*ckin' idea! They bent/twisted the meaning of the 2nd Amendment to suit their needs. Most laws started out as a means to keep guns out of the hands of people they didn't like (ie, black folk, etc..). Now those laws are turning around and smacking us in the face. Never give in. Never make compromises with the anti's. Tell our side of the story. That's about all we can do at this point.
StuckintheUK
New member
SR_15_M4,
Believe me (I live in the UK and have to deal with the realities of "gun control" everyday of my life) the only thing that would make the anti's "happy" is when not so much as one BB gun remains in legal possession of the private citizen. They DO want to take them away from you....... just a few at a time....
Welcome to TFL by the way
Believe me (I live in the UK and have to deal with the realities of "gun control" everyday of my life) the only thing that would make the anti's "happy" is when not so much as one BB gun remains in legal possession of the private citizen. They DO want to take them away from you....... just a few at a time....
Welcome to TFL by the way
Well, not too sure about muzzle loaders, but BB guns are regulated just the same as everything else, so if you want one it's the same **** you have to go through to get a firearm.
And no you see why the possible sunset of the AW ban doesn't mean dick to anyone in NJ......it's STATE LAW here....
hell, I almost shed a tear when ordering my AR-15 and the FFL dealer said 'let me get back to you. I need to call the State Police to see if this is legal'.
Brett Bellmore
New member
SR, in the real world, we either make the gun control fanatics very unhappy, or we lose our rights. Sometimes there's no pleasing everybody.
Bear Flare
New member
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I was just trying to come up with some ideas that would make anti gun folks happy. It seams when thay come up with laws about guns thay try and make them as strict as possable with out taking them away from us
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Screw making Anti-gun folks happy! They darn sure aren't worried about making me happy! Can you reach the counter? Do you have the money? Then you should be able to buy a machine gun.
Nothing about a machine gun that is more dangerous than a regular gun or a car for that matter.
Bear Flare
I was just trying to come up with some ideas that would make anti gun folks happy. It seams when thay come up with laws about guns thay try and make them as strict as possable with out taking them away from us
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Screw making Anti-gun folks happy! They darn sure aren't worried about making me happy! Can you reach the counter? Do you have the money? Then you should be able to buy a machine gun.
Nothing about a machine gun that is more dangerous than a regular gun or a car for that matter.
Bear Flare
Ok, there is 2 sides here.
The people who want guns
The people who don't want guns
Now from what I've been reading here none of you care what the other side wants. And we all know the other side doesn't care what we want. This is like 2 kids fighting over a toy. We are all acting like KIDS.
I want them to stop taking our gun rights away and at the same time I want the other side to STFU about folks owning guns. (The media has alot to do with this too).
You can't just say screw the other side and what thay think because nothing ever gets acomplished that way. Both sides need to come to an agreement and be done with it.
The people who want guns
The people who don't want guns
Now from what I've been reading here none of you care what the other side wants. And we all know the other side doesn't care what we want. This is like 2 kids fighting over a toy. We are all acting like KIDS.
I want them to stop taking our gun rights away and at the same time I want the other side to STFU about folks owning guns. (The media has alot to do with this too).
You can't just say screw the other side and what thay think because nothing ever gets acomplished that way. Both sides need to come to an agreement and be done with it.
Have you ever seen the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales"? At the end of it, Wales and the local Comanche chief (Ten Bears) came to an agreement, which I think we can use as a model.
I want to live in peace. I will be neither a threat nor a nuisance to anyone who wishes to live in peace as well. Respect my privacy and I will pay you the same respect. But if you insist on violating my rights, then we'll have a fight and it won't be pretty. I might not win, but I won't just submit. I've got the tools to resist, and I've also got the desire to avoid a fight. Those are my terms; take your choice.
When a mugger demands all your money but settles for half of it, that's still robbery, not a compromise. There is no such thing as a compromise when it comes to gun rights, just varying degrees of being wronged by the government.
I want to live in peace. I will be neither a threat nor a nuisance to anyone who wishes to live in peace as well. Respect my privacy and I will pay you the same respect. But if you insist on violating my rights, then we'll have a fight and it won't be pretty. I might not win, but I won't just submit. I've got the tools to resist, and I've also got the desire to avoid a fight. Those are my terms; take your choice.
When a mugger demands all your money but settles for half of it, that's still robbery, not a compromise. There is no such thing as a compromise when it comes to gun rights, just varying degrees of being wronged by the government.
That presupposes that certain rights are communally owned toys. I would disagree and call ability to buy guns a civil right and currently owned guns lawful private property.
Trying to take those away would be no different from an attampted mugging or a rape (since the threat of force would be used to get compliance) and shold be repulsed the same way. In a sense, gun ownership is a self-enfocing right -- and any compromise erodes our ability to retain what is left. Therefore: NO COMPROMISE.
Marko Kloos
New member
It is necessary to understand the nature of a subject matter in order to have a fruitful debate...otherwise it's like speaking a foreign language.
You've been told in great detail why "fighting over a toy" is not a fitting or appropriate analogy, but it seems like you're looking for a simplistic solution to a complex problem.
You've been told in great detail why "fighting over a toy" is not a fitting or appropriate analogy, but it seems like you're looking for a simplistic solution to a complex problem.
A closer analogy would be having one toddler show willingness to kill another over a toy...and, if the other give up the toy, willingness to punish for even daring to have it in the first place. Scratch a gun control advocate, find a ghastly critter willing to commit atrocities to achieve his ends.
Sigh*...The reason I use the "fighting over a toy" analogy.
Have you ever seen 2 kids fight? Neather of them care about the other's wants. Thats all thay care about is what thay want. And what usualy happins? The parent (being our govt.) comes and takes the toy (being the gun) away. And both sides hate each other and fight and argue. This goes on and on and on and on getting absolutly no whare.
All i'm saying is, lets agree on somthing and be fair about it.
Have you ever seen 2 kids fight? Neather of them care about the other's wants. Thats all thay care about is what thay want. And what usualy happins? The parent (being our govt.) comes and takes the toy (being the gun) away. And both sides hate each other and fight and argue. This goes on and on and on and on getting absolutly no whare.
All i'm saying is, lets agree on somthing and be fair about it.
Marko Kloos
New member
If you think that the government is "our parent" and has the right to take our guns away if we argue too much about their ownership, what are you doing quoting the Second Amendment in your sig line?
What do you think the Second Amendment means?
Where in the Second Amendment does it say we have to compromise with people who wish to disregard the Constitution?
We've "agreed on something" when the Bill of Rights was written. We agreed that 'the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed'. We're being fair about not infringing on other people's rights to keep and bear arms.
What do you think the Second Amendment means?
Where in the Second Amendment does it say we have to compromise with people who wish to disregard the Constitution?
We've "agreed on something" when the Bill of Rights was written. We agreed that 'the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed'. We're being fair about not infringing on other people's rights to keep and bear arms.
The agreement point which we seek is this:
We do not want to be molested, violated or raped for going on with our daily lives. Weapons and training give us a good chance of preventing such unpleasant events. It is ironic that someone would be willing to molest people in order to take away their means of stopping just that.
We also give something: we won't molest, violate or rape other people. That's a fair agreement. If you don't think it is fair, consider how would you feel if someone tried to forcibly sodomize you "just a little" and complain that you were treating the situation like a petulant child?
We do not want to be molested, violated or raped for going on with our daily lives. Weapons and training give us a good chance of preventing such unpleasant events. It is ironic that someone would be willing to molest people in order to take away their means of stopping just that.
We also give something: we won't molest, violate or rape other people. That's a fair agreement. If you don't think it is fair, consider how would you feel if someone tried to forcibly sodomize you "just a little" and complain that you were treating the situation like a petulant child?
Porter-Glockwell
New member
FAIR doesn't enter into it. Life in not fair. You are right that neiter side cares about what the other one wants. The difference is, the anti-gunners are WRONG.
Look, anti-gun people will never be happy untill ALL guns are gone. Even one gun out there drives them bonkers. Compromise won't help at all. Gun-owners have made all sorts of ludicrous concessions and the antis are still not happy. Well I, and a lot of people are sick of seeing our compromises unnapreciated and spat upon and have given up trying to compromise.
Furthermore, most of us (me included) recognize that we have a GOD-GIVEN right to own anything we damn-well please, and it is no-one's business what we own or what we do with it as long as we don't harm anyone else!
I am to the point where after debating an anti-gunner into the ground I close the argument and say:
"Well, if you really want my guns I suggest you come and get them. Don't be a coward and send someone else (i.e. Police) to get them for you, come and get them yourself. I am not budging one inch on any of my principles and I am willing to kill and die for my beliefs. Are you willing to die for yours? Lets find out, shall we?"
Frankly I reserve the right to own anything and do anything I want as long as I harm no one else. The Constitution enumerates my right to own guns, it does not enumerate your "right to feel safe" nor does it say anything about compromise.
If you don't like the Constitution there are plenty of third-world pits where I am sure you will be very happy. true Americans are willing to fight and kill to keep the Consitution just like it is.
Porter
Look, anti-gun people will never be happy untill ALL guns are gone. Even one gun out there drives them bonkers. Compromise won't help at all. Gun-owners have made all sorts of ludicrous concessions and the antis are still not happy. Well I, and a lot of people are sick of seeing our compromises unnapreciated and spat upon and have given up trying to compromise.
Furthermore, most of us (me included) recognize that we have a GOD-GIVEN right to own anything we damn-well please, and it is no-one's business what we own or what we do with it as long as we don't harm anyone else!
I am to the point where after debating an anti-gunner into the ground I close the argument and say:
"Well, if you really want my guns I suggest you come and get them. Don't be a coward and send someone else (i.e. Police) to get them for you, come and get them yourself. I am not budging one inch on any of my principles and I am willing to kill and die for my beliefs. Are you willing to die for yours? Lets find out, shall we?"
Frankly I reserve the right to own anything and do anything I want as long as I harm no one else. The Constitution enumerates my right to own guns, it does not enumerate your "right to feel safe" nor does it say anything about compromise.
If you don't like the Constitution there are plenty of third-world pits where I am sure you will be very happy. true Americans are willing to fight and kill to keep the Consitution just like it is.
Porter
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