9mm Powder recommendation for Factory like w lead bullet

[Marco Califo]

I think BE-86 and Power Pistol will give you higher velocity potentials. BE-86 is flash suppressed.
I resent the way Alliant pushes Sport Pistol by hiding other powders data on their load guide. It is better to view their annual pamphlets, or, select a powder first, then look up all loads.
Personally, I like plated bullets and Zero lead vapor or handling. Many indoor ranges do not allow any exposed lead in projectiles, to reduce airborne pollutants.
I do not know if coated would be allowed, but doubt it.

 

[ghbucky]

My interest in Sport Pistol really came from my bullet manufacturer. They claim that Sport Pistol is specifically designed for coated lead bullets.

I'll see

 

[std7mag]

I tried the "factory performance" with lead experiment with my Walther PPS.
Failed miserably!
Terrible accuracy!

Then i realized that i was doing things all wrong!

9mm with jacketed bullets seem to have an accuracy node around 1,100 fps. This was what i was trying to load to.
Lead likes to be slower than 1,000 fps.
See where i'm going with this?

If you want to push your velocities regularly over 1,000 fps with lead, i'd recommend gas checks.
Copper disk that seats over the bottom of the bullet & crimps into the sides.

 

[Unclenick]

The Federal Syntech line uses a polymer "jacket" (coating) and their lead-free Catalyst primer, and claims to be perfect for indoor use. The Syntech training ammo is also loaded to match jacketed factory load performance for training purposes. So it is possible to do, though I have no idea how its accuracy compares, as I haven't tried any yet.

 

[ghbucky]

Well......

125gr LRN over 5.4gr Power Pistol did a nice job of replicating factory feel. I added 1 of my very precious (right now) defensive rounds into a a handful of my reloads and loaded the mag blind. I could not have told you which one was the factory round. That surprised me.

After 50 rounds, I have lead deposited on the throat of the lands. Rats.

I have a training class a week from today that has a 300 round count, and since factory ammo is impossible to find right now, I'm considering just going with this and then cleaning the lead afterwards.

I'm open to ideas.

 

[ghbucky]

But you do want to stick with low energy propellants. W231/HP-38, Unique, HS-6, AA#5 are good choices.

OK, my Lyman cast book came today, and I see a recipe for Unique, which I have. I'll give that a whirl.

 

[Mike / Tx]

Here are some pics I took a while back showing normal lead in a heavily shot revolver and that which occurred in only 4 shots.

The first is my 45 Colt which has over a hundred plus rounds through it.

The second is my 41mag after four rounds while testing alloy.

The last is another example that is from pushing the bullets harder than the alloy and lube could hold up to.

These were all using conventional lubed bullets.

The interesting thing is that there isn't a lot of difference between the three loads. The pressure and lube are the culprits. That said, some leading can be simply a little bit which stops after a short distance and doesn't get worse. Some however, builds up or continues down the barrel.

You might have had some fouling just ahead of your chamber that initiated what you have seen. Making sure you have all of the copper fouling out is paramount. If there is anything rough lead will be deposited. Another thing you might try is running a patch with a few drops of light oil or a light smear of chapstick down the barrel just prior to shooting cast has helped me quite a bit after a good thorough cleaning.

 

[ghbucky]

Thanks, Mike.

Thankfully, my barrel looks nothing like any of those.

 

[Unclenick]

Was your 125gr bullet powder coated? Despite some not liking them, others report leading is eliminated by powder coating, so this is partly a matter of what powder and pressure and gun you have. If you can find a bullet with a metal gas check, that will also greatly reduce the leading in most instances, though they do cost more. You may also find something of help in this thread at the castboolits forum.

For fast clearing on the spot, a few strands of pure copper (not the copper-plated steel types—check with a magnet) wrapped around a 30 Cal bore brush will scrub lead out. The Shooter's Choice lead remover applied a few minutes ahead of the scrub seem to help it work. If you have an hour, the Sharpshoot'r product called No Lead converts the lead to a crumbly compound you can patch out in about that time. The Sprinco Plate+ Silver product I mentioned will shoot out in about 1000 rounds or so if you don't refresh it, so you can try it and then stop using it if you don't like what it does (though, with one week to go it is probably too late to get it and give it 72 hours to soak in). You could take a bottle of Lee Liquid Alox and thin it with about 20% mineral spirits and dip the grasp the bullets by the nose and dip them in it and set them out to dry. This supplements the existing lube and adds to bore sealing.

 

[ghbucky]

The bullets are Hi-Tek Supercoat coated.

I went through my die setup last night very carefully and ended up making some changes. I think that my taper crimp was cutting into the coating. I'm not 100% sure, but after making the changes I seated and pulled 3 bullets and there was no exposed lead. Hopefully that helps.

Thanks for the tip on the lead cleaning compound. I had figured something like that was out there, but my previous searches weren't coming up with anything. I'm really surprised Hoppes doesn't have a product for this.

With the time pressure, I'm just going to go with the load I have and clean the gun up afterward. The leading was barely detectable, I really had to do a close inspection to see it.

 

[5whiskey]

I guess I’ve just gotten really lucky? I’ve been shooting lead in 9, 45, 38, and 357 for years and I certainly wouldn’t consider myself as knowledgeable as many here. I’ve never had major issues leading, even pushing 158 gn lswc to around 1250 FPS in .357.

I mean I can fire several hundred rounds before I have any noticeable lead fouling in 9mm, with either my mouse sneeze load or my “9mm actual” load. The bullet lube and powder fouling is making a huge mess long before lead gets to a point where it’s a pain to clean out. The only leading I’ve had slight issues with is my first castings in .45 once I started casting. And that certainly wasn’t from velocity.

 

[gwpercle]

My favorite 9mm Luger Cast Bullet loads :
NOE mould 358-124-TC-GC ...a 124 grain truncated cone cast bullet sized .357 and with a gas check installed .
with the following powders and charges:

5.0 grs. Unique @1125 fps
5.0 grs. HP38 / W231 @ 1135 fps
4.3 grs. Red Dot @ 1083 fps
4.2 grs. Bullseye @ 1067
OAL and taper crimp to pass the plunk test . All of the above are accurate and do not lead the barrel of 4 different pistols .

The most accurate load is the one with Unique !
Gary

 

[ghbucky]

Update:

It looks like I've successfully solved the issue. I believe the leading I did see was due to me not closely inspecting the bullets before seating them.

When I went production I took my time and closely inspected each bullet and found several that had burs on the base of the bullet. I rejected those. I missed a few apparently and I discovered lead around the crimp on 2 other bullets.

I was able to fire ~150 rounds last night and no lead in the barrel today!!

 

[Hammerhead]

I missed a few apparently and I discovered lead around the crimp on 2 other bullets.

If you see lead and/or coating in the crimp area after seating, chances are your bullets are tilting during seating.

I had nothing but trouble with my Lee 9mm seating die. Even with a generous flare (something I don't like to do), I would get scraped bullets quite often.

Switched to a better seating die and no more scraped bullets.

 

[ghbucky]

Switched to a better seating die and no more scraped bullets.

The issue was the bullets having extra material sticking out, not the seating die. It is a quality control issue with SNS casting bullets.

 

[P Flados]

Post 7, Step 1 is to take notes. Step 2 is to tell us what you did.

In the world of leading free cast shooting, many will tell you "bullet fit is king". If the bullet entering into the bore is smaller than the bore, gas cutting will occur and cause leading. Sometimes it seems that a bullet 0.002" larger than bore is needed to seal and stop the problem.

Q1: What diameter for the bullets. I would only recommend trying less than 0.357" for a gun with a chamber too tight to plunk with 0.357". I started at 0.356", tried 0.357", tried 0.358" and ended at 0.3595" before I got rid of my leading issue.

Q2: Do you have any idea what the bore diameter is.

Q3: How much effort is required when running the expander into the cases. If a lot of effort is required, your sizing die (like mine) is sizing the brass down more than needed.

Q4: How much effort is needed to seat the bullets. If more than just a little bit of force is required, your brass is likely to be sizing down you bullets.

 

[ghbucky]

See post #33

 

[caligula]

9mm loads and leading

The connection between barrel leading and choice of powder is velocity. If you are trying to duplicate factory/military FMJ performance using cast bullets I advise to choose a cast bullet of relative weight and select a load recipe from a manual that delivers the velocity stats. of the factory load you want. The Missouri Bullet Co. publishes data for their 9mm hard cast offerings intended for 1100 to 1200 fps speeds. As a youth, I remember the military spec. velocity for the standard-issue round was 1146fps (WHB Smith "Small Arms of The World").

 

[ghbucky]

Caligula,

I don't have a chrono, so what I'm doing is using published data for my bullet and looking for high velocity. Once I settled on a load, I did a simple test: blindly load a single round of my defensive factory ammo into a magazine with my hand loads and see if I can tell while firing which one is the factory.

I'm happy to report that I cannot determine which round is the factory, which is good enough for my purposes. That + no lead in the barrel and my problem is solved.

Thanks.