9mm and the Navy SEALS

[Steve in PA]

Just wondering if anyone else saw the History Channel last week, they did a show on the Navy SEALS. One of the most interesting points was their sidearms. I believe it was a Sig (not sure, not too familiar with them) anyway the point was made about it "only being a 9mm". The SEAL that was explaining all their weapons said someting like...."oh people say its only a 9mm.....well two shots to the head and one to the heart and you won't know the difference". Sounds good to me!!

 

[James Montes]

Steve,

Actually it was "two through the heart and one through the head." AKA the "MOZAMBIQUE DRILL" and it was on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL. Like everything surrounding the SEAL and other spec. ops. communities it is 99% hype and perhaps 1% reality.

I love it when people on sites like this build up such fantastic faceads about the military and communities like the SEALs. It is down right humorous. Anyone who has spent any time "IN" will probably agree with me. The military ain't nothing like what you see on TV or the movies. Nothing against the SEALs, they are a good community. Knowing quite a few of them; having been detached down here in Coronado from March through October. They get a laugh or two out of all the mythological hype that joe-blow civilian buy's into...

While working with STT (Seal technical training)-were BUD/S students go after graduation and jump school, it is great when you hear an instructor say, "All that garbage you see on such and such channel... You will never do it..."

Well anyway, don't put your faith in what you have seen on TV or read in books. The 9mm at the very least is an adaquate cartridge, but not because the SEALs use it. As many of today's TEAM GUYs have never or will ever hear a shot fired in anger...

 

[Nightcrawler]

The SEAL Sig...

AKA the M11 service pistol. Little more compact than the Beretta 92 (M9). Not sure which model, but it's one of the compact Sigs. Army issues it to CID (Criminal Investigations Division) spooks 'cause it's easier to conceal.

I thought special forces used the HK Mk. 23 Mod 0 SOCOM, though, since that's the reason HK developed it....


But, it is true. Most of what you see in the movies is pure bunko. Same thing goes with most computer games, too. All they'd have to do is get one guy who spent 4 years enlisted to correct a lot of mistakes Hollywood makes. It's kind of funny.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greetings To All:

Navy Seal Teams are currently issued the world famous Sig-Sauer P226 in 9m/m; the Army C.I.D. issues it's
smaller, compact brethren the P228; also a 9m/m.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[joegerardi]

Nightcrawler:
The SOCOM, being the only crew-served handgun in existence, was dropped due to its size, and they went back to the 226. That's not to say that the men can't use it if they want to...

 

[DUDE]

it was the SIG-Sauer P226 in 9mm and here is why,

several Beretta M9 used by the Navy SEALs suffered catastrophic slide failures, where the slide split in two after firing and the back half of the slide struck a shooter in the face. the issue of the M9 to the military was halted until the cause of the these accidents was determined. the investigation took a feew months before the cause was determined to be the ammunition used in the SEALs' pistols. Normal firing pressures for the 9mm Parabellum round are in the order of between 31,000 to 35,000 PSI. The ammunition used by the SEALs was found to be of an extremely high pressure, in excess of 70,000 PSI. The Beretta M9 was vindicated, but the SEAL Teams wanted a replacement for their use immediately, so the P226, as the XM9 Trials' runner-up, was quickly tested and then adopted on the 20 of January 1986.

so there is the info

 

[corsair]

Like everything surrounding the SEAL and other spec. ops. communities it is 99% hype and perhaps 1% reality

Like James said, seeing whats on TV and on the big screen is nothing like whats real. For the most part what civilians see never happens and what we don't see is what really happens. Hope that makes sense. The military and SEALs also, are so worried concerning safety and accountability, that all the hot shot stuff we'd like to dream of couldn't happen. Dude, hit it squarely on the reason for using the P226. Lets be real though, SEALs go through more ammo than most small countries, so to use them as a realistic reference point is some what rediculous.

The SOCOM, being the only crew-served handgun in existence.
joegerardi (catcher?) that is hellarious, and true. Ever try strapping that one to your theigh and then hump 25 miles with a 80 lb. pack on? i don't think so. As I understand those units or individuals that use the USP are going with the Tactical or changing the regular USP barrels with threaded ones.

Propaganda is such a wonderful tool, I think every SEAL that has retired and squezzed a trigger at somebody, has had a book published.

 

[Shooter 2.5]

Here's an added oddity for the SEAL's. When I went to a Cooper pistol class, the Colonel really didn't think that highly of their ability to shoot. In fact, his opinion was they didn't know how. When I went to a rifle course at Quantico, it was the same thing about the SEAL's in that they were poor shots. I don't have an opinion about this except that maybe all those months of training at close quarters with full and three round bursts in subguns may have effected their training with pistols and rifles. I really don't know. My only contact with a real live SEAL was walking by one at one time and I still don't think I would want one popping away at me even with a paint gun.

 

[Steve in PA]

Two to the body and one to the head is correct. You can tell I was typing the first topic with one eye open. As a former active military person (USMC '79-'83) I know what one sees on tv or in the movies is not what "real life" is like. The 9mm is "adequate"??? Yeah, and so is every other normal handgun caliber.....too much hype is made about "one shot stops" made from handguns.

 

[James Montes]

Shooter 2.5,

You are also correct.

Traditionally your best marksman come from the USMC or the US Army.
As far as pure Military Professionalism, in every sense. I would have to say that "Uncle Sam's Misguided Children," win hands down in that department.
As a whole they are your best shooters. And no, I am not a Marine, so this is not a biased opinion.
Where Naval Special Warfare is best is "In the Water." Hence the term "Combat Diver."
Having seen both shoot. The Navy should stay were it belongs...
Again...
"In the Water."

P.S. If bar fights were the standard of measurement, I would have to go with the SEALs, or any Sailor for that fact! Heck, give me a deck ape any day... Those dudes can brawl. Probably could not load a weapon much less shoot one though...

 

[justice4all]

James,

or the US Army.

Give me a break.

 

[James Montes]

Well maybe not today's army. I am not in the army but I would have to agree with you... My mistake...

okay, okay...

Marines are your best shooters.

Hey, I ain't in the army either...

 

[George Hill]

Whoa

I was a US ARMY 11B. The fellows in my unit were all OUTSTANDING Marksmen.
Our general BRM course isnt all that great - but the ARM course is fantastic.
I'ld put any group of 11B shooters up against ANY group from any other Branch.

You wanna talk about Seal Marksmenship? I dont know about that...
You wanna talk about Marksmen from the 3rd Ranger Battalion?
World Class.

 

[James Montes]

Justice4all,

Well maybe not today's army. I am not in the army but I would have to agree with you... My mistake...

okay, okay...

Marines are your best shooters.

Hey, I ain't in the army either...

And as bad as the army may be, as a whole they will still outshoot sailors. Granted, most sailors don't deal with small arms at all...

 

[George Hill]

BTW - we all wore our EXPERT MARKSMEN badges with pride... and usually with an against regulation polish to it.

 

[James Montes]

I don't want to get Mr. Hill started...

So I am going to leave this one alone from here on out.

 

[Bennett Richards]

SEALs

I have shot against a lot of Military marksmen. I was trained by a former Marine. He was a great shot, unlike many other Marines I have beaten. The SEALs rank at the top of the military marksman I shoot with. As far as the things you only see on tv comment, the SEALs do night HALOs and a lot of other stuff most of us would probably not have the guts to do. As far as them not firing a shot, for the SEALs I know that is not a true statement. As many of their missions, if not most are black ops, we will never know, and they will never tell.

Ben

 

[DUDE]

you hit it squarely Bennett Richards: Black Ops thats about 75% to 85% of what SEAL Teams and Ranger Teams do, and you will never see it on the news

 

[Sierra]

George Hill - Yes we wore the Expert Marksmanship Badges with pride but you don't think it was that hard to earn it do you? Nevertheless, it was a standard and on our ranges (101 ABN) no slack was given.

 

[George Hill]

Hard to earn it?
No... it wasn't hard to earn it...
Just took determination and concentration.

It would have been much easier if I had a front sight post.