9MM 147 grain cause jams in YOUR 9MM?

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tipoc

New member
Actually, if you read the article you see that Hawks didn't write it. It's written by someone named anonymous but edited and endorsed by Hawks.

I've read a bit of Hawks stuff and find alot of it inaccurate and incorrect. This is another case. Nothing wrong with 147 gr. JHP in a nine. Contrary to what "Anonymous" says it works very well in my BHP.

tipoc
 
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Ace_Breaker

New member
CZ's and 147 grain

I shoot nothing but Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot 147 grain rounds in my 9MM's. When I purchased a brand new CZ P-01 and stainless Rami P they both had problems with the size of the round. Mike from CZ was happy to accept the barrels to make them more reliable for that round, for free. I have had zero problems with the P-01 since. The Rami on the other hand would not work reliably after the fix. It took CZ 3 weeks to respond back to me and they declined to pay shipping to have the gun looked at. I traded the gun. I lost faith in the Rami and wasn't about to drop more money into it. I traded it for a 75B 9MM that loves the round, and I love shooting.
 
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FM12

New member
Thanks for all the posts, and for adding the proper link. Several actual experiences=100 internet "theories".
 
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Half-Price Assassin

New member
No jams here.

I have only shot 50 rounds of 9mm 147gr FMJ WWB. i only shot 50rds cause it cost like $11 a box (over a year ago), and i wanted to feel the recoil of it. I personally like the recoil of the 147gr. alot. now that 9mm ammo is starting to go up, I might stop using 124gr JHP +P gold dots, and start buying the cheap (or cheaper), WWB 147gr JHP for home defense. but to answer your question, No problems for me and my GLOCK 17.
 
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IdahoG36

New member
The only time in my life I used 147gr 9mm rounds was in my Beretta 92fs. I hate 147gr 9mm because it is a worthless loading that lacks stopping power and doesn't always expand. I tried 115 gr jhp in the Beretta, nothing but jams. I tried 124 gr jhp, nothing but jams. Then I tried 147 gr jhp. They were a little bit longer overall than the 115 nad 124gr loads. They fed 100% of the time, no problems.
 
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Ace_Breaker

New member
IdahoG36

Then I tried 147 gr jhp. They were a little bit longer overall than the 115 nad 124gr loads. They fed 100% of the time, no problems.
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So you hate the only round that fed 100% reliable??? Also, I'm a little shocked that a Beretta could not handle the other rounds, almost unbelievable!

I hate 147gr 9mm because it is a worthless loading that lacks stopping power and doesn't always expand
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Actually, you are very entitled to your opinion, but that's all I see it as until I obtain facts or data to prove it. Where do you come up with that information? If you have valid, factual, confirmable data I'd like to see it. I currently carry Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot 147 grain JHP's in my 9MM's. I'm absolutely confident they will get the job done, but if they won't, I'd like to see data showing that they will fail. I'm always for gaining more information so that if what I'm using is bad, then I can make a more educated decision on what to use. I look forward to your response. Thanks
 
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IdahoG36

New member
Also, I'm a little shocked that a Beretta could not handle the other rounds, almost unbelievable!
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It's a military weapon designed to feed ball ammo, so why is it that hard for you to believe that some jhp rounds gave it problems?:confused:

Most law enforcement agencies that adopted the 147 grain JHP subsonic have gotten away from it after disappointing results in the field. Expansion failures and overpenetrations occured too often. While some departments, such as Las Vegas Metro and Jacksonville simply went to faster moving 115-grain JHPs, others simply bought more powerful guns that fired the .40S&W, the .357 SIG, or the .45 acp.
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Gun Digest book of Combat Handgunnery, 5th edition by Mas Ayoob.

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds.
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http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

Do some reading on the ballistics and the real world performance of the 147gr jhp 9mm loadings, and you will see why law enforcement got away from them. Poor performance. But AceBreaker, you are the 9mm expert, use what you want. Law enforcement ditched it because it sucks, and they have shot a lot more people than you or I have.

So you hate the only round that fed 100% reliable???
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Yes, and enough so that the Beretta was relegated to range use only, where it fired 115 gr fmj only.
 
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Ace_Breaker

New member
Thanks for the quick response.

It's a military weapon designed to feed ball ammo, so why is it that hard for you to believe that some jhp rounds gave it problems
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I know that the 9mm ball was a military used round, but I believe the modern Beretta 92 is designed to shoot FMJ as well as ball ammo. As far as I'm concerned any semi-auto handgun is designed to feed ball ammo. Many law enforcement officers use/ or have used the 92 for duty while using FMJ's. From everything I've ever heard and seen of the model 92, it is utterly reliable with any type of ammo. I've never heard of problems with any 92 failing to feed JHP's. I've never heard that the 92 was designed for use with only ball ammo. I gotta see that one in writing. I tried to find that on the web, do you have a link I can check out?


Most law enforcement agencies that adopted the 147 grain JHP subsonic have gotten away from it after disappointing results in the field. Expansion failures and overpenetrations occured too often. While some departments, such as Las Vegas Metro and Jacksonville simply went to faster moving 115-grain JHPs, others simply bought more powerful guns that fired the .40S&W, the .357 SIG, or the .45 acp.
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Do you happen to know how current this data is? Are the new HST and Speer Gold Dots considered Sub-Sonic??? With the new improvements to the 9mm rounds, departments are actually going back to the 9mm. Nevertheless, I do have first hand knowledge of atleast one large department that, instead of issuing only Glock 22's, now issues the Glock 17 because of the new 9mm results. The shocker is, they no longer approve or issue anything in .45 unless a person has carried a .45 and was grandfathered in. I don't get the no .45's rule.:mad:

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds.
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That's a ton of information from an "anonymous" author. Seems like he or she knows their stuff, especially when saying the CZ is a top class 9mm handgun:). At handloads.com it shows that 147 grain bullets performed at 80% in actual one shot stop shooting situations. This is probably also based on older data, but in my mind, pretty decent especially when a person is trained to double tap!!!

But AceBreaker, you are the 9mm expert, use what you want. Law enforcement ditched it because it sucks, and they have shot a lot more people than you or I have
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I never ever claimed to be an expert, especially with the 9mm. I carry a .40 Glock! I do like the 9mm though. There is a surge in the LE community that is going back to 9mm believe it or not. I haven't seen the statistics on the new 9mm rounds in actual shootings. They will be interesting to see. But for some reason there is a resurgence in the 9mm round and I also know first hand with the dept. I mentioned above, the only issue ammo is Federal HST 147 grain rounds:D.
 
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IdahoG36

New member
9mm is an excellent caliber given the ammunition choices avialable today. I'm not arguing that. My old Beretta 92fs did not like to feed hollowpoints. It would constantly jam. I tried some 147gr jhp because they were a little longer overall compared to the 115gr jhp and 124gr jhp ammunition I had previously tried, and they functioned 100%. I don't know why it didn't feed the others reliably, but it didn't.
I personally like 9mm, but not the 147gr load. All of the information I have read on them has been negative. Maybe the newer loadings are better, but I haven't tried any of them. The only 9mm I own anymore are a Kahr CW9 and Taurus PT92. The Kahr is a CCW, loaded with 124 gr jhp +p Speer Goldots. The Taurus is strictly a range gun and I only shoot 115 gr fmj WWB.
 
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Ace_Breaker

New member
Idaho, I know how it is sometimes. I could not catch a break with any Taurus firearms so gave them up. Tons of people out there love them and defend them, but my opinion is different because of my personal experience. People often lose sight of that.

I see people say "the cops switched to this caliber/handgun" all the time but I never see examples
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Well, when I spoke of the dept. I was talking about my own. It is one of the largest departments in the state. I don't throw their name out because I don't want to be a spokesperson for them. They started buying Glock 17's to issue and many people are switching from .40. The .45 is not authorized for new people to carry, only those that currently have it can continue to carry it. I currently only know of one deputy that has a .45 and it's a Glock. The only authorized 9mm round is the Federal HST 147 grain. There are very few out there that don't carry the Glock .40. I'm considering going back to 9mm myself, that's why I'm researching this. Look in the Pacific NW area, it won't be too hard to find the information out.
 
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Crimp

New member
I've never had stoppages or jams with 147s. The only consideration I see would be accuracy with a heavy bullet due to the twist-rate of the barrel. This doesn't affect handguns as much as rifles, but it's still a consideration.

I read that a lot of 9mm barrels are slow, especially older designs, in the 1x12" to 1x16" range and are optimum for 115gr bullets. A heavier bullet needs to spin faster to stabilize, and a 1x10" bbl is optimum for a 124gr bullet. A 147gr would work better at a faster rate yet. There's a formula for this somewhere but I can't find it...
 
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Hickok

New member
I think that in the early days of issue of the 147 gr. subsonic load, there was a problem with slower slide velocity due to the heavier bullet weight and the powder charge being used. The slower slide velocity was blamed for inducing failure to feed jams. Whether true or not and whether it is still a problem, I cannot say.
 
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Jermtheory

New member
ive shot hundreds of rounds of 135gr Federal Bonded +p and Winchester 147gr from a Glock 19,Glock 17,and a Beretta 92FS.

the only one that ever had a jam was the Glock 17 and that was a FTF due to a worn out guide rod spring(changed it out and problems were gone).

....none had to do with the 135gr or 147gr ammo,it shot fine in all.

never had a problem with 115gr Cor-Bon +p in any of the guns listed above either(i seen Cor-Bon mentioned by someone).
 
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TexasSeaRay

New member
In the early 90's, our agency began issuing Winchester 147 grain Subsonic to all the agents. We used it in our Sig 226's as well as our suppressed weapons.

Have shot thousands and thousands of rounds of that stuff with no problems.

Jeff
 
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grimjaw

New member
Shoot 147gr (American Eagle/Remington Golden Saber) exclusively in a Kahr PM9, and occasionally in a Glock 19 and CZ P-01. No issues to report.

jm
 
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