8mm Mauser - Why?

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mooreshawnm

New member
OK I have wanted a 98K (or yugo/czech version) forever now. About 10 years ago I bought a 6.5 Swede carbine. Shoots like a dream but:

1) No Hooded front sight...important, no but looks cool!
2) Handle is strait as opposed to curve like a 98K
3) Shoots that weird and expensive 6.5 round
4) History is lacking

OK so here is the question, why when I go to Remington's website and compare ballistics does the 8mm (and the .303) suck so bad?

Since I already have the swede I need help in justifying another mauser. I really want it but if the 6.5 blows it out of the water should I spend the cash? If so which one?

Shawn
 
K

ksstargazer

New member
What was it about the ballistics that you do not like?
You answered part of your question when you mentioned history. That is a big part of owning a Mauser such as the K98k, VZ24, M98/22, or the myriad of other 8mm military rifles. The other part is the cheap ammo - I pay anywhere from 5 cents a round to 10 cents. That is a lot of shooting for very little money. My practice with this ammo insures that when hunting season comes, I am ready to take on deer with open sights up to 200 yards. Once you know the characteristics (ballistics) of your firearm and ammo, you are able to hit what you are aiming at. I am sure there are cartridges that perform better than 8mm (by that I guess you mean more velocity and energy at a particular range) but 8mm does what I need it to do.
 
G

Gewehr98

New member
Your first mistake...

Was to use Remington's ballistic data.

Domestic-manufacture 8x57JS Mauser ammo, as sold by Remington, Winchester, and Federal, is seriously downloaded. No kidding, it's closer to .30-30 Winchester in performance, compared to 8x57JS Mauser ammo as issued to European military units since WWI and European-manufactured ammo since then.

Here's a comparison I posted earlier, when a user named Mannlicher blatantly stated that U.S. made 8x57JS wasn't downloaded:

3030vs8vs06.jpg


Note the numbers for the 8mm Mauser are much closer to the .30-30 Winchester in performance. SAAMI has handicapped the 8mm Mauser here in the good old USA, to prevent somebody from stuffing European-specification 8x57JS ammo in an older '88 Commission Rifle and hurting themselves. It's not a new tactic, commercial .45-70 loads are purposely kept weak to prevent somebody blowing up a vintage Trapdoor Springfield, too.

My advise? Get the 8mm Mauser rifle. Then use European spec ammo, or handload. Buy US ammo strictly for the brass, or as reduced-recoil practice ammo, only. :D
 
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SavageCheesecake

New member
hm, something I definately was unaware of. I just picked up a Yugo capture K98. Id already just about made up my mind, but it looks like I'll be using mil-surp primarily.
 
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mooreshawnm

New member
Thank You guys that is what I wanted to hear! Those numbers just looked entirely to low to me. So now I MUST get one!

Next Question: Which one? Yugo, Czech or German? Also what year did the German ones production standards go to crap?
 
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SavageCheesecake

New member
I believe the Germans of any year will be a good rifle. As for myself, I havent gotten the Yugo out on the range yet, so I cant tell ya just yet.
 
M

MILbolt

New member
suck so bad?

OK so here is the question, why when I go to Remington's website and compare ballistics does the 8mm (and the .303) {suck so bad?}


That's funny the SMLE killed people out to 1000 yards..
The #4 did too...

You can't compare factory rounds with each other.
Light loads are what they are..If you handload you can see. Pull a round
apart and weigh the charge.

I took some factory winchester and my handloads to the range and
seen a major difference. The factory rounds were all over the place
and my handloads were right on... 1.5" @ 100 yards.

Heck German soldiers took Mosin Nagants from dead Soviets
during the 2nd world war because they were more accurate than the
K-98.

Although the '03 springfield does well with the '06 but the m1917 not as well.
So there's the '06 in two guns....

Remington has a new rifle chambering with the 8x57 mauser.....
spectacular shooting.... 2004 model 700.

You can get 2800 FPS with a 150 grain bullet.
 
T

Tamara

Moderator Emeritus
Light loads are what they are..
Click to expand...

That's what Gewehr98 just said...




Anyhow, don't sell the 6.5 Swede short, mooreshawnm. It's a fantastic round; flat-shooting, mild-recoiling, and will kill most anything in the lower 48 deader'n Elvis. Federal has been known to load for it in their Premium line, too. I've got a few boxes of 140gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claws lying around, someplace...
 
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IrishGrit

New member
Hey fellas, I'm new here, and glad to be here! My father just bought a Mitchell Mauser KAR98. It is a wonderful shooter, but we ran into the same low powered loads as mentioned above. All I can say is RCBS!!! You can load the 8MM right up to 30-06 power. 180's at 2700 plus no problem....of course you work it up slowly...closely checking your primers and other signs of high pressures. This is a truely awesome round and the old large ring Mauser action can handle it most of the time. The germans as well as some of the early post war tooling factories used to make these weapons out of Krupp steel...some say the worlds best! 30-06, 7.62x54R, 8mm, all loaded hot are very close in power. The advantage will always go to the -06 for bullet weight and available brass. Nevertheless, 8mm's in the reloading press can be quite impressive!
 
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Marky

Moderator
7.92 (8mm)

I personally think the 8mm is the perfect white-tail rd. Keep in mind it's basically a .32 cal., I think (without checking, going on memory) it's like 31.88 in actual measurement, I mean in standard units, and the 6.5 falls into the .27 cal. family. Anyhow two very different rounds. When comparing cartriges you have to compare euro. measurements to standard scale, i.e. hundredths of a inch as to MM's.
 
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jefnvk

New member
3) Shoots that weird and expensive 6.5 round
Click to expand...

Hey, now. That's my Swede you are talking about. No more expensive than any other commercial round, true there is not much milsurp lying around. As Tamara said, flat shooting, low recoil, and deer don't know the difference between it and any magnum with any number of S's in the name. If it is used effectively on Moose, it is nothing to sneeze at.

As for the domestic 8mm, yeah just downloaded for lawyer purposes.

BTW, 8mm = .323 (old commission rifles were .318, reason for it being downloaded), 6.5x55 = .264 (shoots the same bullet as the .260)
 
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Eghad

New member
why not.... 8mms m48s can be found for a good price of around $100-$150. I betcha can fins some surplus ammo for it..if all else fails you can break out the reloading press as said above...

I have bid on a M48 one that is in very good shape..bound to get scarce down the road.

I wouldnt mind getting another swedish mauser for the action and making a sporter rifle with a nice barrel..... 6.55 is one suwheet cartridge.
 
O

Olaf

New member
Finding a good to excellent codition German Kar98k is getting more and more difficult. An easier one to find will be a Russian-capture K98k....or a Yugoslav-capture K98k. Or, just look for a Yugoslav M48, M48a or 24/47. All good rifles, well worth having. The original German K98k's are much more "collector's items" than the others I mentioned....and so tend to be rather more expensive. A VG to Excellent Yugo rifle can be had for anything between $100 and $200.

By the way, IrishGrit. The Mitchell's Mausers are Yugoslav M48's or M48a's. They are NOT Kar98's. "K98", "Kar98k", "Kar98" ...or "K98k" are all designations which describe the German rifles. The Mitchell's rifles are Yugoslav. Very, very similar to the K98k's....but NOT identical. Just ignore the crap that Mitchell's publishes about the rifles (I know, they call them alternately M48....K98, etc.) They are HUGE BS artists....so you should take almost none of what they say at face value. Not to worry, though. The M48's and M48a's are great rifles.....which has nothing to do with Mitchell's. They simply imported the rifle, cleaned and refinished it....and sold it to you. But, be careful about the information they provide with the rifle. Some of it is absolute rubbish.

As well, there is no magic to the concept of "Krupp Steel". Krupp actually was more famous for the weapons they made (heavy weapons, such as artillery) - not the steel. The Swedes made steel, at the same time, that was every bit as good as the German steel. In fact, the Czechs made better steel than the Germans. When the Germans invaded Czechoslovakia in 1938, they found that the Czech-made steel armour plate was actually better than their own. So, they shipped samples back to Germany....and after analysing the composition....copied it. This became the basis for the steel armour used in the "vaunted" German tanks of WWII. The thing that the Krupp works really did well, was design and manufacture artillery pieces. The steel used in your father's Michell's Mauser (Yugoslav M48 or M48a)....was made in Serbia, by the Yugoslavs. It is of a formulation provided to them by FN, in Belgium (before WWII). It is also every bit as good as the steel used in the German rifles.
 
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ocabj

New member
OK I have wanted a 98K (or yugo/czech version) forever now. About 10 years ago I bought a 6.5 Swede carbine. Shoots like a dream but:

1) No Hooded front sight...important, no but looks cool!
2) Handle is strait as opposed to curve like a 98K
3) Shoots that weird and expensive 6.5 round
4) History is lacking

OK so here is the question, why when I go to Remington's website and compare ballistics does the 8mm (and the .303) suck so bad?

Since I already have the swede I need help in justifying another mauser. I really want it but if the 6.5 blows it out of the water should I spend the cash? If so which one?
Click to expand...
1. You can get a hood for the front sight. Easy to find and install.
2. You must have a M96/38 which is a cut down 96. The M96 had the straight bolt handle. The M38 had the bent bolt handle. Some M96 rifles were cut down to M38 length.
3. Reload.
4. Aside from the fact that the Swedish Mauser wasn't fielded by a major power Allied or Axis, the history is still interesting and far from lacking.

As far as the 6.5 vs 8mm, the 6.5 has the 8mm beat in the accuracy department. The 6.5 bullets have higher ballistic coefficients. They also have high sectional density which aid the velocity and energy. Combined, this makes the 6.5x55 an accurate, highly wind resistant cartridge with good stopping power (if you're into hunting).

As far as velocity and energy, large ring Mausers can be pushed to .30-06 like performance, but the .323 bullets won't come close to the accuracy of the 6.5/.264 bullets.

But as people have already noted, 8mm Mausers are easy to come by and for a good price. Get one if you don't have one. I like the VZ24s myself.

But don't get rid of your Swede. It's an incredible rifle. Besides my Garands, the Swede M96 is my most favorite milsurp rifle to shoot.
 
J

James K

Member In Memoriam
Basically, U.S. factories load both the .303 and the 8mm down because there are a lot of very old rifles in those calibers that would be unsafe with mil spec loads. The 8mm presents a special case. The old Model 1888 Commission rifle has a bore of .311" and a groove diameter of .318". Newer Model 98 Mausers have a groove diameter of .323" because they increased the groove depth, so the newer ammo (WWI and WWII) has bullets of .323".

The problem is that the new ammo will fire in the old rifles and pressure goes up both because of the larger bullet and because the case neck may not have room to expand. By cutting down the charge, the U.S. ammo makers reduce the chance of a problem in that regard.

Jim
 
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mooreshawnm

New member
ocabj, actually I believe it's a '38...(husqvarna vapenfabriks aktiebolag 1941 whatever that means) the bolt handle is bent I meant the wooden grip is staight....just doesn't look as cool as the German one. Wouldn't have bought it if the bolt handle wasn't bent as it would look like those ugly turkish things!

Shawn
 
F

FirstFreedom

Moderator
Huh? I have a 96/38 and its bolt is straight, thankfully. I believe the bent bolts are something the importer did to some of them, ruining them as collectors for the most part. (But clearly, they bent them for a good reason - see above comment by this young man: "Wouldn't have bought it if the bolt handle wasn't bent as it would look like those ugly turkish things!")

But what they said - euro milsurp 8mm is hot, hot; far more than the factory stuff. Just don't shoot it in a Gew88 Comm'n rifle.

Say fellas, is a 24/47 the same or different from a vz24?

If you want to put a pistol grip on your swede, then get one of the original swede sniper rifle grip pieces that just screw right on with the action screws, from Samco Global:

http://www.samcoglobal.com/access.html

Scroll down to

"Target Grip with Metal Mounting fits all models - $34.95" - call and order.

My 96 (original) looks pretty cool with this accessory on it.
 
M

mooreshawnm

New member
ok still not making myself clear.... Now a pistol grip is most certainly not what I meant by curved....Think of the grip on a stock M1A/M14 CURVED...think of the grip on a 1903... straight line. Pistol Grip=AR15. As far as the bent down bolt, it is standard on most mil bolt action rifles, every pic of the M38 that I have seen has a bent down bolt handle, as do the 1903, 98K, .303 ect ect. I just think it looks better (and I imagine it had everything to do with not getting caught on stuff).

BTW Started the thread to get a better idea of 8mm mauser ballistic power and am now satisfied...thanks for the help guys, I must have one!

Shawn
 
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